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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Re: Follow Up: 6 to 8 volt Cold Starting

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Jim bobb

11-30-2005 08:43:47




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I did not check coil voltage while cranking. I did check wires with an ohm meter to the coil & it was about .1 ohm per my ohm meter.

I assumed the wiring is ok.




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jdemaris

11-30-2005 11:33:14




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 Re: Follow Up: 6 to 8 volt Cold Starting in reply to Jim bobb, 11-30-2005 08:43:47  
A few general comments without getting lost in technical data. A 12 volt system will outperform a 6 volt system in cold weather - even if all is perfect. I've yet to see a single exception. I've got several 6 volt tractors that I prefer to keep that way (for reasons of collector's value and perhaps nostalgia). For those that I want the ability to start when it's -25 below F - I either use a block heater, or a 12 volt battery stuck in temporarily for winter use, or both. In regard to voltage at the coil - at cranking, a 12 volt system coil is meant to perform at 9 volts, and a 6 volt system coil at 4.5 volts. The more voltage you feed to the coil, the more potential spark output and cold staring ability. The downside to this is - as the voltage gets higher, the life of some coils will be shortened, and the ignition points will not last as long, and - in some situations - the coil might put out more spark then can be delivered to the spark plugs (might jump to ground from a bad or wet wire, cap, etc). Deere Company had particular problems when they changed over to 12 volts. Many of their gas engines were lousy starters in cold weather - and subsequently - Deere put 6 volt coils on 12 volt systems - sometimes with no ballast resistor. This resulted in much better starting, but the points didn't last very long. On many of those tractors, if you replace the coil with a generic unit, they become poor starters in cold weather. So, those are just some of the reasons for all the jerking around with ballast and thermal resistors and ignition "thermosats." Today there are many types of high-quality coils on the market that will put out very high voltage (i.e. spark potential) if needed without sacrificing reliability. Couple that with a electronic ignition pickup (like Petronix) and the problem of ignition point pitting/arcing is also solved. I must admit, I don't use any of the high-end modern stuff. All of my high-use tractors are diesels. So - for the limited use equipment, I don't mind changing points and such once in awhile.

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John T

11-30-2005 13:55:04




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 Re: Follow Up: 6 to 8 volt Cold Starting in reply to jdemaris, 11-30-2005 11:33:14  
JD n my ol buddy Buick man, One of the limiting factors Ive read about concerning points is limiting the switched current to the 4 and 5 amp range to avoid premature burn up. That would mean a total (coil plus any ballast) of around 3 ohms on a 12 volt or 1.5 on a 6 volt system. Running 12 on a 6 volt coil does indeed allow for more energy (volts x amps x time) to be discharged across the spark plug gap although the points will suffer.

I had a longgggg gggg discussion with Texas Denny over on the AC Board a good while back about the Kettering Ignition system, it would have been fun to have yall in on that one too.

John T

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jdemaris

11-30-2005 14:25:10




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 Re: Follow Up: 6 to 8 volt Cold Starting in reply to John T, 11-30-2005 13:55:04  
There have been many systems designed to cope with the problem of high-voltage versus points burnout. Back in the 60s-70s, when points were still being used, the Capacitive Discharge setup worked okay and cut down current flow across the points. I had several but they didn't seem to be highly reliable.



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buickanddeere

11-30-2005 09:57:05




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 Re: Follow Up: 6 to 8 volt Cold Starting in reply to Jim bobb, 11-30-2005 08:43:47  
Measuring resistance that low with a standard hand held ohm meter can be subject to error. If there was 4.0 amps and .1 ohm reistance on just one line alone that's just about to make starting misorable. If .4V drop on one line and likely .4V drop on the other. There is a loss of .8V on a system with about 5.0V to 5.5V or 16% voltage drop. There has to be a high resistance connection,wire or switch in there somewhere making trouble. VD is best found by measuring the voltage across a set of switch terminals, from end to end on a cable etc. Try the voltage from the (-) battery post to the coils (-) post at rest and when cranking. Then again but from the battery's (+) post to the coil's (+) post. And of course post to post on the coil. There is VD in there somewhere. Of course with two extra volts with the 8V battery, a drop of 2-3 volts will go unnoticed until the system deteriates further.

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