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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Help John T

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3661

01-31-2006 13:48:43




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I will try to keep this short. I have a JD B that won't charge. I had to get the Gen rebuilt because of bearing failure, had a good charge up to then. For your info it has a new Reg. on it now. I read your Troubleshooting Charging systems guide and have tried and solve this. My question is I tested the VR by grounding the Gen Field post to the case as you said,I got a good strong charge. There is a wire from the VR Field Post to the Gen Field Post. Can I assume the rest of my wiring on the tractor to be OK
and my problem is with the VR. Thanks for your help,this is my first time on your forum. Lots of good info.

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John T

01-31-2006 15:16:46




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 Re: Help John T in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 13:48:43  
3661, Ifffff fff when you dead ground the Field it charges FULLY (i.e. not just a trickle but it still depends on the battery state) and will keep that up and not overheat, but it will NOT charge otherwise, I repeat the genny is likely okay and I would suspect a VR or a wiring problem or the VR isnt well grounded or the wires bad from the gennys Fld post to the VR's Field terminal. If the battery was good but just in a low state of charge and if all else were good but dead grounding the Field only yielded a few amps of charge and/or she got hot, then I would suspect an armature or commutator type of problem, cuz a dead field ground should allow a max charge rate (like 8 to 20 amps depending on the genny) in a good system with a good but low battery.

That being said, some VR's will work correct at Pos or Neg ground while others may not, are you still at the factory original Positive ground??? and did you polarize the genny?? and is the VR compatible with whatever ground you have??

CAVEAT: Some folks get worried n have heartburn if the ammeter isnt showing max charge HOWEVER if the battery is good and the charging system all okay, once the battery becomes charged, the charge rate is supposed to slow to a trickle. Another good test for the charging system is to place a voltmeter on the battery. A 12 volt should read around 12.6 setting but rise to 13 and a lil over at wide open throttle and/or the light should glow noticeably brighter from slow idle to wide open.

Sooooo ooo I would check the connections n grounds n insure the VR is well grounded and the belts good n tight and use her n monitor the battery voltage and ammeter and if the battery stays up (especially if lights turned on) and she starts n runs fine I wouldnt worry too much just yet maybe. However, if the battery runs down and she NEVER charges UNLESS you dead ground the gennys Field and then does so and continuous and dont overheat, I would suspect the VR ground or its wiring or the VR ASSUMING its compatibe with your ground system ( + or -).

Also, you sure the ammeter is good and wired correct????? ? Not running if you turn on lights it ought to swing over to - discharge. Theres usually only one wire on the ammeters battery supply side but the other side feeds loads PLUS wires to the BAT terminal on the VR, yours like that??

John T

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3661

01-31-2006 15:39:27




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 Re: Help John T in reply to John T, 01-31-2006 15:16:46  
John T, Thanks for your reply. I did not run the Gen long enough to tell if it would overheat. Wire from the Gen field to Vr field terminal is good. Bat. is low so I am showing a good charge with field grounded. The tractor still has pos. ground, I feel like I have correctly polarized the gen. The only thing I don,t know is if the Vr is correct for this polarity. It came from the JD dealer. Is there a way for me to tell if it is correct? Finally,I am sure I'm not getting enough charge or any because I have to recarge the bat. periodically. Thanks

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John T

01-31-2006 17:28:54




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 Re: Help John T in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 15:39:27  
If the VR came from Mother Deere and youre still at the original Pos ground, I would expect its fine and suitable. Okay, it sounds like the genny is good, but if its simply not charging enough amps, if I didnt know otherwise, I would doubt the VR settings/adjustments to be correct i.e. its not calling for enough charge enough time which is what its Voltage n Current control relays are supposed to do. Other things I still worry about would be the connections at the ammeter (correct location and tight) whereby its monitoring/sensing voltages arent accurate so its not allowing for all the charge it ought to have.

Its just hard sitting here to say what the problem is so I gotta take shots at possibilities. Has the battery been load tested??? A weak cell can cause all sorts of charging problems. Is electrolyte above all the plates and no cells exhibit a gray or milky color?? The load side of the ammeter has loads like lights n ignition PLUS is wired to the BAT terminal on your VR right???

Is this a 3 terminal (BAT ARM FLD) or a 4 terminal (BAT ARM FLD LOAD) Voltage Regulator??? On many of the 4 terminal the ARM is off on a side or the bottom all by itself and not so visible and the 3 terminal on top are BAT FLD LOAD. Is the genny an older 3 brush or a 2 brush, you know??? If it were a 3 brush genny on a VR versus a cutout relay, the 3rd brush ought to be set at max charge.

Sorry, Im runnin out of ideas sititn here where I cant hang a VOM on the system and insure its wired right and what it is. From the sounds of it Im not sure I would know then even lol, but I just wonder if its the right VR to match the genny specs, cuz unless its the battery or wiring or a ground problem, it sure sounds like a VR problem or its the wrong geneny or VR and they arent workin together.

Let us know, check n re check grounds n wiring and the ammeter n battery.

John T

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3661

01-31-2006 19:39:59




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 Re: Help John T in reply to John T, 01-31-2006 17:28:54  
Thanks for additional ideas. Will try tomorrow and see if any help.



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Bob

01-31-2006 16:39:37




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 Re: Help John T in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 15:39:27  
Voltage regulator polarity typically has more to do with the material it's internal contact points are made of, than anything else.

Usually, regulators will work with either polarity, but will last longer used with the intended polarity.

Depending upon the polarity, one of each pair of mating contacts will wear more that the other.

On regulators that are polarity-sensitve, one contact of each pair is made of a different (better) material to withstand the erosion.

When used on the opposite polarity than intended, the contacts will have a shorter life.

If you got it from the dealer, you'd think it would be correct. Was it in a Deere box, or aftermarket?

Assuming the regulator is good, as well as the generator, are BOTH grounded... no rust, paint, or rubber grommets in the way of a good ground?

You could run temporary jumpers from a good ground to the generator and regulator, and see if that helps.

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3661

01-31-2006 17:10:13




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 Re: Help John T in reply to Bob, 01-31-2006 16:39:37  
Bob, I removed the seat and the battery box sanded the parts and reattached them. I ran a wire from the battery ground to the gen then tested. No better, attached to Vr, no better. I'm not saying it can't be a wiring problem but all I did was remove a Gen. that had been working untill the bearing failed, had it rebuilt. This was always a good dependable tractor untill this. Would sure like to get back to where I was.

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3661

02-01-2006 15:07:23




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 Re:Todays update in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 17:10:13  
Just wanted to let the guy's who have been helping me know where we are today. Tried a few more of your ideas - no better. I have gone ahead and replaced the battery cable that goes to the starter, insulation was in poor shape. At the same time I replaced the wire that went from the starter to the ammeter it looked ok. Had the battery checked, cells ok a little better than average to fair load test. I took the gen to my jd dealer they are going to put it on their test stand. They said it was very difficult to get the VR set. They don't like to work on gens. I just wanted to ask about setting a Vr. I didn't know they needed to be adjusted. Any thoughts. Thanks.

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3661

01-31-2006 15:04:50




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 Re: Help John T in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 13:48:43  
Bob, Thanks for the reply. Gen was completely rebuilt.



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Bob

01-31-2006 14:45:05




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 Re: Help John T in reply to 3661, 01-31-2006 13:48:43  
If the bearings failed badly enough that the armature rubbed on the field pole pieces, the amature may have a shorted turn. Are any of the armature laminations discolored by heat, or bent, cutting into the windings?

It may still charge when "full-fielded", but will not "excite" as easily, and, with the added resistance of the wiring to and from the regulator and the regulator, may not excite at all, when the regulator is in the circuit..

Did you check the armature for shorts with a "growler"?

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