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Turning up a 4450?

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jefferson75

06-25-2007 21:39:46

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hey i have a 4450 deere. its an '85 model with 6100 hours. runs great but with our hills could use a little more power on our 4000 gallon spreader. dynos 160 horse and we have it weighted to almost 17,000 pounds. this is a 2 wheel drive with the quad range transmission. my question is: could i turn it up another 20 horse safely? that is all the extra i need. as stated,it is a good runner on everything, just needs a little more snort for the big spreader on hills. it is our biggest tractor also. the motor has never been touched or the injection pump. starts good,doesn't use oil,and runs good. no missing or knocking. it does smoke a little white under heavy load,but doesn't seem to effect power in the field. any info on this would be appreciated. would turning it up cure the problem on hills and not hurt it? or should i be concerned about the little bit of white smoke? i have heard that 466s can be turned up pretty good without hurting them. in fact,our neighbor has a 4650 turned to 210 and seems to handle it fine. would the 44 be the same? any help is welcomed. thanks in advance.

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farmerDan07

06-26-2007 21:26:45

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

I have had my '86 4450 turned to 175 horse for 6 years now. Havn't had any problems at all. Did lock up the fan though,it cured the heating problem. It's a great tractor!

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NEIADan

06-26-2007 19:25:06

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

I too was hoping you would get some good experienced comments on your question. I have a 4450 mechanical and am also real disappointed in the horsepower. The local Deere dealer tells me that almost all the 4450's have had the fan locked up because of the limited cooling capacity. I think I need to look at a new radiator. mine is running 159. Hard to imagine that my old 11,000 hour 4430 is running well into that 170 range running cool and way more fuel efficient. I'm afraid turning mine up won't help unless i can control the cooling problem. Another Deere engineer screw up putting a big block in a small block cooling system.

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G/MAN

06-28-2007 07:49:32

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to NEIADan, 06-26-2007 19:25:06

The have the fans locked up because those older viscous fan clutches tend to fail, and installing the two little brackets takes about 10 minutes and $20 vs. an hour or so of labor and several hundred dollars for a new clutch. It has nothing to do with the cooling system capacity - it is sufficient. If it was a capacity issue, locking the clutch wouldn't solve a thing. But if you have a slipping fan clutch and the fan is only running half the speed it should be, obviously cooling will be affected. If everything is in good condition in the cooling system, they'll cool just fine up into the 200-hp range at pretty much any ambient temp. Anything under 190-200 degrees is too cool for a heavy-duty diesel engine. An engine operating at proper operating temp will be more powerful, more fuel efficient and will last much longer than one running too cool.

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buickanddeere

06-26-2007 20:52:15

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to NEIADan, 06-26-2007 19:25:06

Ideally the coolant temp should be at least 180F on a hard working engine. An odd jobs and putting around tractor is better running 195+F for clean combustion. If the tractor only sees summer use in the south and is used for heavy work. A solid fan drive will use more fuel but move more air. Around here when working hard blowing snow, the viscous fan doesn't speed up enough to even roar in the winter time. Exhaust gas temp is far more important than coolant temps.As long as the coolant doesn't boil, there is no real concern. All new polypropylene coolant mixed 30/70 with distilled water in a freshly flushed cooling system will help. So will a bottle of RedLine water wetter to reduce the coolants surface tension.

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jefferson75

06-26-2007 20:02:11

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to NEIADan, 06-26-2007 19:25:06

well,im not really dissapointed in the horsepower,it is a rather big load. it runs good on everything except this big spreader. im just looking for a little more horse on the spreader cuz we have alot of hills. sounds like you got a good 4430,most around here arent that good. ive been around them and their cooling system is worse then the 4450s. but most 4440-50s put out more horse then they are rated at it seems. i guess you have your better ones in all of them. some people say a 4450 is the best tractor they ever had,some say a 4440,others a 4430,etc. i like the 4450 the best. hope to get more comments.

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jefferson75

06-26-2007 19:05:23

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

does anyone have any experience with a turned up 4450? would like to hear on that if someone does. by the way,"buickanddeere",sorry for saying you had an attitude,it just came off that way when i first read it. any more comments are welcomed.

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Mike Aylward

06-26-2007 15:38:41

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

Jefferson, if you are careful your tractor will live turned up to the higher level. I have a 4440 that turns that level and has for many years. It would get warm until I put a new radiator in it and now it stays in the green. Before I turned up the tractor, though, I would put in a new set of air and fuel filters and run the valves at the very least. I imagine you will find some "free" horses if you do this. Hope this helps. Mike

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4430jd

06-26-2007 11:02:03

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

Try D1 & D2 will be just under your C3&C4 gearing, Spreader would be good load for 4450 on the road with hills involved, Wash out your Radiator and all the coolers with it, Older tractor I would be leary turning up to much,

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Brendon

06-26-2007 04:15:28

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-25-2007 21:39:46

Note that the 466 engine in the 4650 has an intercooler that your 4450 lacks. I would think that this difference also relates into a larger cooling package on the 4650 (a speculation based on the wider nose of the 4650 and 4850 compared to the smaller models). A pyrometer should probably be part of your "hop up kit" so you can keep an eye on the exhaust gas temps.

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buickanddeere

06-26-2007 07:36:27

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to Brendon, 06-26-2007 04:15:28

Depending on the ambient air temp and duration of the full power. The exhaust gasses are already past the yellow and into the edge of the red area of the EGT indication at 160HP. Any restriction in the air intake, filtration or exhaust system will drive the temps even higher. As previously stated. The intercooler, larger radiator and a couple of factor engine tweaks. It�s along way from a factory rating of 140HP to the 202HP peak the 466 had in the 55 series. Get an EGT and install it before doing anything else. They are a good idea on any turbo diesel, even stock. Then again it's your tractor and your repair budget. You could just gear down on the hills?

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jefferson75

06-26-2007 08:26:47

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to buickanddeere, 06-26-2007 07:36:27

if the spreader is full,my tractor will pull down a pretty good amount in C-4. it has brand new 20.8-38 firestone deep tread radials so i'm guessing its around 12-13 mph in C-4. i was talking to our neighbor with the 4650,he says 180 should be fine with the 44. i wonder if i need injectors done,valves adjusted,etc.? would that increase power without turning it up? as i stated,it only smokes a little white under real heavy load. I dont think its nothing to serious,as it reads great oil pressure,doesn't use oil,starts good,and runs good. leaning toward turning her up,but would those other things get the power increase i want? keep the comments coming. thanks again.

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jefferson75

06-26-2007 08:38:51

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-26-2007 08:26:47

also,im thinking about locking up the vicious fan drive if i turn her up. its original and its starting to go toiwards the red zone on a warm day when working hard. is this a good idea? especially if turning her up? its gotta be the fan drive,cuz it had a new radiator put in by the original owner three years ago. thats the only thing thats been done to the tractor in 22 years. any help on all this stuff would be greatly appreciated.

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buickanddeere

06-26-2007 10:15:50

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-26-2007 08:38:51

Let�s see. Deere used intercoolers on 466's making more than 140HP. probably for some sound engineering reason? Your neighbor has or has not offered to pay for broken parts after your 25+ year old tractor has after it's been turned up? A stock 4450 makes 78% of the power of you intend to turn up your 4450's HP to. Neither your neighbor nor you have acknowledged that an EGT to monitor the power turbine inlet temps is a must. Does your neighbor have some sort of thermodynamics, metallurgy or mechanical engineering degree? The 20.8x38�s will be causing soil compaction resulting in crop yield reduction. Dual 20.8x38�s are required for this weight and stock HP levels. 180HP is past Firestone�s recommendations for rim/tire bead torque without slippage. How about using C1&C2 ? Why not a new viscous fan drive? If she's to the red working on a warm day? Deere used a viscous drive for a reason? Was the tractor really dynoed at 160HP or compared to something that supposed to be 160HP? Does your Father know you are on the computer trying to find somebody to say it's OK? To turn-up his 4450 so you can better a stock 4650's HP and approach a turned up 4650's HP?

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jefferson75

06-26-2007 12:12:14

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to buickanddeere, 06-26-2007 10:15:50

look,im not a kid. im 39 years old. im simply asking for help and your attitude isnt helping.

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105EB

06-26-2007 14:03:37

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to jefferson75, 06-26-2007 12:12:14

I don't think B&D is giving you attitude, but rather sound advice. You need to either lighten the load, go a little slower, or get a more powerful and larger tractor. Yep, you can turn up what you have, but you'll end up paying quite a price for those extra ponies, especially if it's tending to run warm now. Take your neighbor's advice only if he's willing to pay for the fried parts.

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CPeter

06-26-2007 18:57:13

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Re: Turning up a 4450? in reply to 105EB, 06-26-2007 14:03:37

So what does it cost when that 25 year old tractor comes unglued and things start popping out of the block like a porcupine? Mother Deere has a whole bunch of guys out there with advanced degrees figuring out what they need to put into a tractor to sustain a given horse power over an extended period of time and they figured that what they built was just about enough. Now add a ton more HP and all kinds of things fail prematurely. On a pulling tractor owned by some millionaire, not a problem, but on a tractor used regularly on the farm, a different story.

Bring the engine back to factory specs and see if that doesn't make a difference. Leave the souped up machines to the big buck pullers.

CPeter

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