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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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720 pony coils

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joelrand

02-04-2008 19:21:52




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I have new pony coils to put in, but the old ones have a laminated bar through the middle and glued in. Could you tell me how to replace these coils and a little on how they use this bar to increase 6 volts to 20,000 or however much it is at the spark plug. Thanks.




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buickanddeere

02-06-2008 06:19:40




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to joelrand, 02-04-2008 19:21:52  
Make certain the coils and plug wires match. Some coils use spring loaded clips and others just a sharp pin.



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John T

02-05-2008 06:51:49




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to joelrand, 02-04-2008 19:21:52  
Joel Its NOT just that bar that inceases 6 volts to 10,000 or so, the bar only improves the mutual inductive coupling between the low voltage primary windings and the high voltage secondary output (to plugs) windings. As posted in a transformer the secondary output voltage can be increased over the low voltage primary voltage by winding many more turns/loops of secondary wire over the lesser turns of low voltage primary. Similar a transformer can reduce ac voltage if the turns ratio is used in reverse i.e. 10,000 volts AC could be reduced down to far less based on the turns ratio.

ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN TRANSFORMER ACTION THAT CAN TAKE BOOKS TO FILL IN A PARAGRAPH HERE sooooo ooo for now if you understand a transformer can increase or reduce voltage by more or less turns of wire in the primary versus secondary windings/turns in the secondary youre in pretty good shape. HOWEVER theres no free lunch and you cant create or destroy energy so keep in mind if the output is higher voltage then its going be producing less amps. The output energy would be equal to the inputs LESS the heat losses, the transformer is NOT a perfect energy transfer device i.e. energy in DOES NOT equal energy out, some gets expended as heat.....

PS yoy may wanna check with Frank regarding his oil pressure coil protection circuit n whether or not he still uses the ballast in the newer coils !!!!! !!!!! !!!

John T

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LarrySTN

02-04-2008 19:46:07




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to joelrand, 02-04-2008 19:21:52  
You will need to tap the lamenent bars out of the center of your old coils. Use a block of hard wood or poly block to start driving the bar out of the coil. Coils are a type of transformer. Tranformers increase voltage by using a turns ratio of the primary winding (6 volt side) to the number of windings on the secondary side. I don't think these coils will come close to 20,000 volts. Maybe lucky to hit 8,000 under ideal conditions. ie 8000 divided by 6 would give you aproximately 1330 secondary turns per primary turn.

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Bob

02-04-2008 20:22:46




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 lamenent bars??? in reply to LarrySTN, 02-04-2008 19:46:07  
"lamenent" bars???



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Ebbsspeed

02-04-2008 19:55:16




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to LarrySTN, 02-04-2008 19:46:07  
Larry, it's not based on a fixed "primary to secondary" turns ratio, although there are a lot more secondary than primary turns. It's more about inductance, and the effect the collapsing magnetic field on the electrons hanging out in the secondary windings.



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LarrySTN

02-04-2008 20:13:04




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to Ebbsspeed, 02-04-2008 19:55:16  
Ebb....I realize that there is much more than simple turns ratio... I was just trying to give a simplistic answer to the question. and the easiest to understand is turns ratio. Certainly a coil wouldn't work if the secondary winding didn't have multiple windings for every primary wrap.



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John T

02-05-2008 07:01:07




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to LarrySTN, 02-04-2008 20:13:04  
Larry, you are correct, the turns ratio is a chief contributing factor in computing output versus input voltage in a transformer. Of course, each winding must contain a sufficient number of turns coupled with the use of soft iron cores etc like the center core bar in question such that theres sufficient inductance and good mutual inductive coupling between the primary n secondary for better transformer action i.e if you wind two turns of wire over a single turn of wire and dont use any soft iron core etc., more of the inputs energy will go to heat versus a good efficient transfer over to the secondary as in a well designed real transformer.....

John T

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F-I-T

02-04-2008 19:41:47




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 Re: 720 pony coils in reply to joelrand, 02-04-2008 19:21:52  
The bar is not glued in, it's just stuck in place from the heat and the time. Just place the old coils astraddle vice jaws and tap it out using a brass hammer. As to the iron core and how it works with the coils, I can recommend a evening of reading through something like the "Radio Amateur's Handbook" for the theory. It is several pages.

HTH

Frank



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