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1944 A generator type

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Tom

02-06-2001 18:20:18




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I have been batteling this problem for some time now and am frusterated and need some expert advice. When I bought my long hood A SN 545997 it had a cut-out charging system that didn't work. It was grounded throught a three-position light switch. After getting it rebuilt, and a solid state cut-out (the original was bad) it still didn't charge. We bench tested the unit again and noticed the cut-out wouldn't engage until the generator was spinning much faster than it would ever spin on the tractor even at full speed. So, I bought a new mechanical cut-out from oldjd4u. It still wouldn't charge. I rewired the tractor, double-checked everything, opened the light switch and cleaned it, tested it with a meter, including the different resistances at all three positions for the F lead. Still no charge! The ammeter is good because it shows a discharge with the lights on. So I decided to chuck the cut-out idea and upgrade to a voltage regulator system. It's a better system anyway, and I can always change back if I want later. So... I heared that a generator that is for a cut-out system is not the same as that of a VR system. Three-brush vs. two brush. Something like that. I looked at my parts manual for some help and it shows a different mounting system for a long hood than for a regular A. Plus there is a break in s/n for two different mounting methods for the long hood. My s/n falls in the later number break, but my tractor has the mount for the earlier system. I ordered a rebuilt generator from farmandcountry.com, supposedly for a VR system. But... the mounting flange for tightening is on the opposite side as the original! There must be a break in generators that coincides with the break for mounts. So... I took the brush band off of the rebuilt and it has the same number of brushes as my cut-out generator. So I am very confused, and you are probably confused reading this! There must be two different types of generators that fit both types of mounting methods for long-hood A's. Plus I'm not sure the rebuilt is indeed for a VR system at all! Even though it's for the other mounting system anyway. Any help would be very greatly appreciated.

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clooney

02-08-2001 13:58:37




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 Re: 1944 A generator type in reply to Tom, 02-06-2001 18:20:18  
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Tom, follow John T's advice on the generator. A little follow up on cut-out v/s regulator generators. The cut-out system uses a movable 3rd brush to control output & a regulator system uses the regulator to contol generator output. An adjustable 3rd brush generator will work good with a regulator but should have the 3rd brush adjusted for max output (close as possible to the other brush). For your information I attached a late A wiring diagram so you can wire it like the late A.

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John T

02-07-2001 06:01:23




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 Re: 1944 A generator type in reply to Tom, 02-06-2001 18:20:18  
Wow, your right, its about as confusing as many of my long winded answers. A few things. (1) A 3 brush generator can STILL have a full fledged VR in lieu of just a simple cut out relay. (2) If youre using a full fledged VR, that eliminates, of course, the need for and wiring of the light switch field regulation system. (3) If you think you didnt get sufficient generator output at a certain RPM, that may be due to insufficient field current instead of insufficient RPM, because you increse output by EITHER turning it faster or increasing the strength of the magnetic field. Now, armed with that, you may wnat to play with it some more and remember, the generator and VR need a good ground to work. If you dead ground the field lead out of the generator when its running, does she gen then??? (should if gen is good (regardless if VR is or not) and Bat lead gets through ammeter to the battery as it should) If you put a test lamp on the Bat terminal on the VR does she light ?? (sure should, it has to get to battery to ever charge it). PS did you polarize the new VR once all was connected??? Ol John T

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Tom

02-12-2001 16:57:50




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 Re: Re: 1944 A generator type in reply to John T, 02-07-2001 06:01:23  
John T,
I tried my original generator again today thinking that the ground may have been bad, and or the third brush wasn't adjusted correctly. I cleaned the surfaces between the frame and generator mounting brackets, and tried a new replacement cut-out and an original cut-out off of my LA with the third brush at both extreme positions. No charge. The ammeter shows a discharge with the lights on. I even grounded the field terminal bypassing the light switch ground. Do I have a posessed tractor?

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Tom

02-07-2001 06:24:43




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 Re: Re: 1944 A generator type in reply to John T, 02-07-2001 06:01:23  
Ol John T,
Thanks for the reply!
1. Since a 3 brush generator can still have a VR, does that imply that a VR generator and a cut-out generator are identical? Or that the number of brushes is a bad indicator of generator type?
2. I was just going to use the original light switch as that only. Not using the field terminal at all.
3. I tried connecting the F terminal on the generator directly to a good ground with a wire and two alligator clips. No charge.

Actually, to be totally correct and honest with my story I got it to charge once after the generator was rebuilt and I ditched that solid state cut-out and used another from an LA that I'm restoring. It charged fine until I ran out of gas and It sat outside overnight. I filled the tank up the next morning, started the tractor, no charge, and hasn't worked again since then. I bought a VR then from oldjd4u when I didn't understand the difference between it and a cut-out. I hooked the VR up with the light terminal to the field terminal of the three position switch. Bad, I know. I saw the smoke and kicked myself. Since then I rewired everything, and used another switch in case I ruined the resistor. Then I bought the new mechanical cut-out. No charge. So now you are caught up to the entire greusome mess! I tested the generator body for proper ground with a continuity tester, and it beeped at me, but I wonder if the ground isn't good enough to work. Plus, I noticed yesterday that my generator belt was cracked. That may be a problem also, but I doubt it since it was sufficiently tight. I called farmandcountry.com today and had them check on the different generator mounting types for a long-hood A, since they sent me the wrong one. I am looking forward to the solution, as spring looms closer and work awaits! Thanks...

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John T

02-07-2001 13:53:15




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 Re: Re: Re: 1944 A generator type in reply to Tom, 02-07-2001 06:24:43  
Tom. 1. A generator, regardless if for a cut out or a VR arent different, the cut out simply disconnects the battery from the generators armature so it dont reverse discharge when you shut it off. A VR still has the simple cutout (between Bat and Arm terminals) but also has the field regulation portion. Most older 3 brushers were used on external non VR light switch type field current regulators and used cutouts. Then later, most were 2 brushers with full fledged VR's containing both the cutout and field regulation capability. However, some 3 brushers came out with full fledged VR's also. So, as long as the generator has the field wire lead out the side, you can regulate its charging EITHER with a light switch or a VR, and you can disconnect the bat and arm (to stop reverse discharge when off) with either a VR or a cut out only ie mix and match. The gen has to have a good ground to ground the brush coming out of the armature and the VR has to have a good ground to ground the field. Ol John T Clear as Mud huh ????

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