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1941 JD H,Electrical Question

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Larry

02-07-2001 19:06:48




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Hello All.. I have a 1941 JD H Electric Start, that Originally came from the Factory with a Magneto, But someone along the line put a Distributor on it, Which works Nicely, With one exception, If You take the Battery out of the Circuit, It won't continue Running. > Is there a Wire Missing that will reroute 6 volts to the Points >Or wherever to correct this Problem..
Without the Bat in the Circuit it Dies.. Thanks Alot! Larry

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clooney

02-08-2001 13:01:29




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 Re: 1941 JD H,Electrical Question in reply to Larry, 02-07-2001 19:06:48  
Larry, if the generator is putting out 6.5 Volts+ the tractor should stay running, the problem is most generators don't charge enough at idle to keep the cut-out relay closed so the voltage to the points stops. Either way you shouldn't run it long without the battery connected as without the battery to absorb excess voltage spikes & power surges you risk over voltage to the coil, points & lights. If it only has a cut-out relay & no voltage regulator the high idle generator out put will be too high, as it is configured to charge the battery & not just run a distributor.

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John T (Follow up ?)

02-09-2001 05:59:49




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 Re: Re: 1941 JD H,Electrical Question in reply to clooney, 02-08-2001 13:01:29  
Hey clooney man how ya been up there in Michigan, hope to see you at Expo. (Did you mean ignition points or cut out relay points???) I dont have a H wiring diagram in front of me (but it appears this is a home made set up anyway with mag removed), but if the lead feeding the ignition switch and coil and ignition points is connected to the ammeter (which is connected to the battery), the tractor will still run (ie wont die at slow idle because cutout relay is open), regardless if the cutout relay to the generator is opened or closed i.e. the coil still gets battery energy, regardless if its 6 volts or elevated to 6.5 if the cut out is closed and the generator is working. While cranking the engine to start it, the cutout relay is open and the battery voltage is drawn way down due to the cranking motor load, but they still start. I wasnt aware of any that fed the ignition circuit from the generator somehow such that they only see the generators output, do they on an H ????? When he asked if the battery were taken out of the circuit it wouldnt run, I know if you take the battery out the tractor will die, unless you have a wiring set up that connects the coil to the generators output and maybe a dummy battery load completing the circuit. On many alternators, you can remove the battery after its running and they will continue to run, but on most battery and VR systems, taking the battery out kills the engine. I dont own an H, but are they wired different somehow such that the ignition points are fed from the generator side of the cutout relay and need or use the generator only to suppy voltage to the ignition points???? Not an H man Ol John T

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clooney

02-09-2001 13:35:01




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 Re: Re: Re: 1941 JD H,Electrical Question in reply to John T (Follow up ?), 02-09-2001 05:59:49  
John T, I was talking ignition points. In reference to the generator directly feeding the ignition circuit, it would do that if the battery was removed, as the generator would power up the Bat terminal (cut-out & regulator) or L terminal (regulator) if it was charging 6.5+ volts. If the Bat or L terminal has 6+ volts in it the ignition curcuit to the coil would be hooked to one of those to work even if it had a battery installed. All my generator equiped tractors will run without a battery as long as the generator is spinning fast enough to keep the cut-out relay closed. As soon as the engines slows down enough for the cut-out to open they will stall though. The weather here in Michigan has turned real warm & everything is melting now. What a mess! I will probably be at the Expo as long as I am not out of town on business then. Hope to see you there.

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clooney

02-08-2001 13:01:02




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 Re: 1941 JD H,Electrical Question in reply to Larry, 02-07-2001 19:06:48  
Larry, if the generator is putting out 6.5 Volts+ the tractor should stay running, the problem is most generators don't charge enough at idle to keep the cut-out relay closed so the voltage to the points stops. Either way you shouldn't run it long without the battery connected as without the battery to absorb excess voltage spikes & power surges you risk over voltage to the coil, points & lights. If it only has a cut-out relay & no voltage regulator the high idle generator out put will be too high, as it is configured to charge the battery & not just run a distributor.

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John T

02-08-2001 06:03:15




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 Re: 1941 JD H,Electrical Question in reply to Larry, 02-07-2001 19:06:48  
Larry, with a battery powered coil ignition versus a magneto, it cant run without the battery. (Unless you rigged a special generator set up like when they used them for lights only on hand crankers) Kinda like No ticky no laundry. The batterys current flow through the coils primary and points to ground is what produces the spark plugs firing energy. The removed magneto produced its own energy is why it didnt need a battery. John T

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