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12volt or 6volt?

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50man

04-06-2002 03:08:50

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I have always thought my 50, which has 2-6v batteries, started on 12v but ran on 6. But looking it over it seems to me everything is 12volt (generator,distibutor,lights).Why not just use a 12v battery instead of 2 6v's?

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John T

04-06-2002 05:08:11

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Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to 50man, 04-06-2002 03:08:50

Dear 50 Man, The simple reason they used two six volters in series was the increased overall amp hour capacity. The more lead and acid and plates and plate to acid surface area you have increases the battery capacity (amp hours) and two six volters added up usually has more than a single 12 volter. However, it is possible that two wimpy little 6 volters may not have as much total capacity as one super large heavy duty 12, but thats not the norm. If you notice generally, the two sixes like fills the battery compartment, while the 12 does not which gives you the idea theres more overall capacity (lead, acid, plates, surface area) with the two. Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Brad_R

04-06-2002 08:44:46

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Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to John T, 04-06-2002 05:08:11

Mr. T; My name is Brad and I am taking series of automotive classes at my local high school. Here is my question to you: We are learning charging and starting systems at this time and my instructor told us that using 2 batteries in series doubles the voltage only and not the amperage. That disagrees with you saying 2 6 volt batteries in series increases the amp hour capacity. I am going to ask my instructor to explain this in a little more detail. I would also like you to explain in a little more detail so I don't make a fool of myself when I question my instructor. Thank you, Brad R.

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John T

04-06-2002 14:03:58

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Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to Brad_R, 04-06-2002 08:44:46

Brad, I said two sixes in series increases the AMP HOUR CAPACITY not necessarily the amps. The amps the two in series will supply is a function of the resistance of the applied load and the batterys ability to provide the same before droping its voltage. Amp Hours (the ratign that used to be advertised) is an indicator of the energy storage capacity of a battery, so two is obviously more than one. DC Voltage sources in series ADDS the voltage between the two remaining unconnected posts ie two sixes in series yields 12 volts. Now using Ohm's Law I = E/R (Or E=IxR) and that Power = E x I (Or I Squared x R) you can easily perform the calculations your instructor may ask of you. Good Luck Feel free to e mail any questions. Ol John T Nordhoff Engineer in Indiana jmn50@msn.com

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Doc

04-06-2002 18:34:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to John T, 04-06-2002 14:03:58

John... It's great to see answers like this. Nothing like basic forumlas to prove a theory. Too many "guessers" answering questions... Someone a few posts ago said that all "A"s were negative ground, since his is.

Funny what an owners manual will tell you!

I think I'll look into converting my 50 A to Neg ground though, it'd sure be easier to jump start!

Doc

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chuck

05-12-2004 20:07:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to Doc, 04-06-2002 18:34:39

If its a 12v system (as stated) why not just put two 12v batterys and have the best of 12 volters and 2 batterys?

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DON

04-06-2002 12:22:36

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Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to Brad_R, 04-06-2002 08:44:46

we used to figure that a good 6 volt battery rated at 120 amps, times 2, hooked in series was 12 volt and 240 amps, also a good 12 volt battery rated at 70 amper hours x3 was 210 amps so you can see the two 6 volt batteries had more crank power,(20* below zero would show you in a hurry) however today we have 12 volt batteries with 800 -1000 amps or more so you can put in 1 12volt battery and do a lot more cranking but the two 6 volt batteries of today would have even more crank power 800 amps times 2. (assuming you could get them in the battery box).Don

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G Taylor

04-06-2002 13:12:34

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to DON, 04-06-2002 12:22:36

Two 6V batties that can supply only 120 amps/6V will still supply only 120 amps if connected in series. Voltage is increased to 12V, that's all. Two sixes in parrallel will supply 120 amps at 6V. In either case "power" is doubled.Power= Volts x Amps in DC system. A higher voltage system is more efficient & requires smaller dia/lighter conductors to carry the same amount of "power". Motors/generators will be more powerfull for a given physical size at higher voltages.

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typo repair

04-06-2002 13:15:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to G Taylor , 04-06-2002 13:12:34

Sorry, typo error. The two sixes with 120amps each, connected in parallel will have an output of 240 amps & 6V.

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G Taylor

04-06-2002 09:15:03

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Re: Re: Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to Brad_R, 04-06-2002 08:44:46

All true putting batteries in series increases the voltage while keeping the same current. Reason for two sixes in series was higher current capacity with 12V output than just a single 12V battery. The 12V cells of the day were similar physical size & weight as the 6V's. Two 12V in parallel would have worked but in that era most equipment still used 6V. Batteries were cheap & if one failed the other could be used in another 6V machine. It did cause problems with operators using one old & one new or one large & one small 6V battery together. Just wait a year or two, 42/48 volt automotive electrical systems are on their way.

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Clooney

04-06-2002 04:59:54

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Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to 50man, 04-06-2002 03:08:50

50man, when the J.D. 50 came out in the early 1950's there weren't any tractor rated high amp-hour (CCA wasn't used yet) 12 volt batteries available (at least reasonably priced ones). ~Seeing as Deere was already using heavy duty tractor rated 6 volt batteries & weight wasn't a problem it was easier to just use the two 6's instead of developing a single 12 that would do the job & hold up to field use.
~The new 12 volt, sealed, high CCA, better built, plastic case batteries are cheap & will work just fine for tractor use. ~While many people use the new Freedom-Type sealed car batteries & just toss them in the battery box, they really should be bolted down & the charging system set a little higher. The new sealed type batteries are designed to charge at around 14.2 volts & some of the old Deere's were set to charge down in the 12.6-12.8 range to avoid battery overcharging & water loss..... ..... .

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mike

04-06-2002 03:40:10

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Re: 12volt or 6volt? in reply to 50man, 04-06-2002 03:08:50

I have always used a 12 battery in mine as they last longer and seem to leak less acid and I can
usually come up with them cheap or free.I have been using side post batteries lately only because
I work at a car dealership and can pick up used
batteries that just need charged good and long for free,people got to go now so we put in a new one.

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