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1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v?

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Scott

05-05-2002 08:21:13




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Can anyone help me out? Thanks...




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440Sam

05-05-2002 18:01:37




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 Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Scott, 05-05-2002 08:21:13  
Scott - why change - I have a 430S that is all origional (lights and all) and starts better than my more modern John Deere diesels. Also my neighbor has a Ford 601 Workmaster that is 6 volt - starts and runs the best. Just my 2 cents.



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Mr. Thinker

05-05-2002 19:22:05




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 Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to 440Sam, 05-05-2002 18:01:37  
440Sam, I could not agree with you more. I have an "M" which starts and runs just fine with 6-volts. Most 6V troubles stem from lack of maintenance. Properly sized battery cables, wiring harness and switches in good condition, starter and generator in good condition, and the little Dubuque tractors will start as good on 6-volts as any 12-volt system. If there's a valid reason for changing these tractors to 12V, I've not yet heard it.

These 12V conversions that seem so popular on this and other boards are going to come back and bite these people in the butt, as the day will come when these conversions will significantly lower the value of the tractors when they are goobered up with alternators and butchered wiring harnesses.

Of course, that's just my opinion, so let the games and the flames begin!!!

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I don't think so////

05-06-2002 02:37:16




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 Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Mr. Thinker, 05-05-2002 19:22:05  
thinking jerk; I think the guy asked how to change from 6 to 12 volts not if he should or not. You have no idea if he needs to change for 12 volts to run other equipment or some valid reason. As far as cobbled tractor is concerned all he is doing is bolting on a different alternator and a few wires that will not hurt the resale one bit and if the original parts are retained will even enhance the resale. BTW I thought you changed your E-Mail address a few months ago apparently you forgot.

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G Taylor

05-06-2002 12:28:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to I don't think so////, 05-06-2002 02:37:16  
Problem is 95% of 6V to 12V conversions are cobbled up messes.And the original parts get lost or tossed out. Mr Thinker has seen enough of these "tinker fixes" to know. The tractor is often left without lights or instruments & the new alternator just gets used a belt tightener. The wiring harness either gets cut up or melted. Then the 12V battery only gets a battery charger connected when parked at night. 12V on a 6V is not a cure for electrical, carb or engine problems. If you need 12V for a planter monitor or a round baler the 430 while robust, is a little small for such loads.

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Rex

05-06-2002 12:49:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to G Taylor , 05-06-2002 12:28:34  
Taylor your a jerk! Are you saying scott is going to butcher his tractor. It seems like he is asking for guidence on how to do it right. Remember NOT EVERYBODY DOES WORK LIKE YOU DO most people try to do a respectable job. As I recall you butchered your 435 by installing the incorrect injector parts and pistons talk about a cobbled job.



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G Taylor

05-06-2002 13:34:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Rex, 05-06-2002 12:49:16  
Adrain H,Rex and several other names for such a hurt & bitter hurting little person. How does the "N" series pistons & "N" injectors which is a DD factory upgrade because the "S" series equipment doesn't start well enough when new, compare to... Taking a tractor which starts/runs fine if in good repair on 6V and using 12V to cobble over problems due to age/wear? Then again facts don't count if you can get a cheap shot in. Shouldn't you be in class or studying instead of goofing off in the school computer lab? If this fellow is using the 430 to e.g. spray fields at night & wants high intensity lighting then ok, "IF" the conversion is done correctly/neatly.

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Rex

05-06-2002 14:02:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to G Taylor , 05-06-2002 13:34:36  
Taylor your reasoning is right up there with the other hypocritical jerks that think what they do is right and what others do is wrong. Fact/ you butchered your 435 with the incorrect parts to make it start better. There is nothing wrong with the original 435 or Deere wouldn't have sold it. I fail to see any difference between what you did and converting a 6 volt tractor to 12 volt. At least a 12 volt conversion can be removed easily at resale time. If 12 volt starting is so bad why did Deere change to 12 volt. The only difference between changing a 6 volt system to 12 and installing different pistons and injectors in your 435 is you changed yours so now you have to find a way to justify it. I'll bet you dont have original sized tires on your tractors or original pulley sizes on your generators. I'll bet you even have higher output generators on some. Go back to completely stock on ALL your equipment and maybe then you will be qualified to criticize others. BTW who the h ell is Adrain H and how is he related to you?

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G-MAN

05-06-2002 15:56:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Rex, 05-06-2002 14:02:34  
Rex, if you will read G Taylor's post a little closer, you will see that the upgrade he performed was brought out by DD. In case you didn't know - DD is Detroit Diesel - the OEM manufacturer of the engine. This is no different than the piston upgrades on the 4960s - which was brought out by the OEM of that engine - John Deere. Do you really think the designers of these engines consider their updates to be butchering? Have you ever had a car recalled but decided not to do it because it would no longer be stock? That's the kind of logic you're using. By the way, is every part on all of YOUR tractors OEM? Are you using the exact right spark plugs, plug wires, points, oil filter etc etc? If your answer is no, you'd better lay off of G Taylor. There is no such thing as a 100% stock tractor - at least by your definition. And yes, the 6-volt systems were perfectly adequate when properly maintained and operated. Even 12 volt systems fail - we replace dozens of alternators, batteries etc every year. And when you think about it, his updating the pistons and injectors makes the tractor start easier - which saves wear and tear on the starting system. Right back to square one again, aren't we? G Taylor didn't criticize people that convert to 12 volt, just those that do it incorrectly. Surely we can find more interesting topics to argue about than this one - if we need to argue at all. If you are a JD fan, Rex, the way I know G Taylor is, there is no need for this bickering among people with a common interests. Save your venom for the guys who constantly degrade Deeres. The poor guy that posted the original item probably wishes he never would have started anything. Just my two cents.

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Rex

05-06-2002 17:34:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to G-MAN, 05-06-2002 15:56:00  
I do know about DD I used to run one of those oil throwing 2 cycle suckers in a beet hauler. I'm sure the designers of the DD update kit did not consider their package a butcher package but I'm also sure the designers of the Delco alternator didn't consider their advanced charging system a butcher package either. The point I'm trying to make is that updating a tractor to a better functioning charging system is not a butcher job and Taylor must think everybody butchers things like he does. That is not the case and it isn't his place to criticize people that want a better charging system or starting tractor. I do have an original 37 B with the original washable oil filter and original tires the tractor has never been painted but I do use modern gas and oil in it. That doesn't give me the right to tell you that you can't use new tires on yours or hang an alternator on it if you want. I also have an alternator on my late B that I use for winter work and brushhogging. The problem with Taylor is he criticizes anyone that wants to improve their tractors starting but does the same thing on his and thinks it's alright. What a hypocrite. BTW you aren't any better for defending him. Taylor tries to act like he knows Deere tractors and other than a few points he slides through he don't know much and if you can't see that you don't know much either. Taylor tries to act like the real mr. thinker not the imposter above but doesn't have the knowledge or background to pull it off. If he would just keep his d amn mouth shut and answer the things he knows he wouldn't look like such a jerk. Almost everytime he says something good he opens his mouth again and says something stupid. I've seen some of your posts and you are learning more about the 2 cylinders as you go so if you don't get the Taylor syndrome you should be an asset to this board in the future. Taylor isn't very well liked mostly for his attitude and misinformation so if you want to be like just him be my guest. I know you work in a repair shop so you must have someone like him in your shop if not you are lucky and have a good place to work.

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G-MAN

05-06-2002 18:18:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Rex, 05-06-2002 17:34:45  
I understand what you're saying, Rex. I think you just took his posts a little differently than I did. I don't know what history you and G Taylor have if any, and I'm not that interested earlier. I'm also not going to comment on him one way or the other except to say that he's never insulted or mislead me. I'd just like it if everybody could get along a little better. I know I'm far from perfect in that respect but I've been trying to put a little more thought in my retaliatory posts towards Deere bashers. I do work on JD tractors on a daily basis, and I definitely learn something new (more like 100 somethings) every day. If I know something for a fact, I'll tell you - if not, I'll tell you that too. I know that there will always be some disputes and disagreements on these discussion boards, but sometimes they could be handled in a more adult manner. I know the old testosterone gets the best of all of us now and then, so let's just try and get along. In the words of the immortal Red Green: "Remember, we're all in this together".

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Mr. Thinker

05-06-2002 17:10:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to G-MAN, 05-06-2002 15:56:00  
I'd have to agree with G-MAN about almost all of what he said. I once converted a pony-start 720D to 12V with an alternator because I needed a 12-volt source for a planter monitor. And I can tell you that when I got done with it, it looked like Deere had put it there!! If there is a NEED to convert a tractor from 6V to 12V, fine, but do it in such a way that the tractor can be converted back to original condition, especially if it's a tractor with some collector value. I couldn't begin to tell you about the number of real "butcher" jobs I've seen with alternator conversions, among other things.

Rex, I have seen hundreds if not well over a thousand "collector" tractors sell in my time, and I can guarantee you that tractors with original equipment electrical systems will bring many hundreds more dollars at auction, time and time again.

The last point to be made is that 12V is not a substitute for good maintenance. In many cases, it's a Band-Aid, that will cure the symptoms for a while, but the real problem is deeper down that should have been solved in the first place.

I don't think what I said, or what G. Taylor said could have offended anyone in any way, but if so on my part, my apologies to anyone it did.

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Scott

05-06-2002 20:12:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Mr. Thinker, 05-06-2002 17:10:03  
Sorry! I didn't mean to get everyone wound up...My intention in changing to 12 volt is that the tractor isn't used very often, and the 6volt batteries just don't last. And it is easier to pull my truck up to it to jump off... As far as value....it is for sentimental value, and I won't ever get rid of the tractor...



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Wayne in Tn.

05-05-2002 14:34:41




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 Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Scott, 05-05-2002 08:21:13  
Scott, let Clooney know and he will send you a great diagram. Also you don't have to change the starter, the original will work fine on 12 volts.



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david

05-05-2002 13:30:44




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 Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Scott, 05-05-2002 08:21:13  
Change the starer to 12v and a 1 wire alt. Be sure to put a resistor between the starter and the gauges and lights so only 6v will be fed to the gauges and the lights or these will have to be changed to 12v also.



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Clooney

05-05-2002 09:24:04




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 Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Scott, 05-05-2002 08:21:13  
Scott, what do you have or want to use for a charging system? ~12 volt Generator?
~12 volt 3 wire Delco 10-SI? [regular 12 volt alternator from mid 70's car or truck [fairly cheap]
~12 volt Delco 1 wire 10-SI alternator [more money , but easier to hook up & wire]?
~Other charging source?
~Let us know & we'll cook you up a wire diagram....



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Scott

05-05-2002 17:07:55




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 Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Clooney, 05-05-2002 09:24:04  
I want to use a 12 volt 3 wire Delco 10-SI. Thanks for your help.



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Clooney

05-05-2002 18:57:44




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 Re: Re: Re: 1958 430T JD..I'm looking for how to change the 6 v. system to 12 v? in reply to Scott, 05-05-2002 17:07:55  
Scott, check your E-Mail, a wire diagram has been sent.....



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