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1020 flywheel question HELP!!!!

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mark

06-16-2002 13:53:13




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This tractor wont start or even turn the engine.
the flywheel will spin when you turn the key but nothing else turns. Is it the clutch thats bad or what?
I have experience with car clutches but this one seems really strange to me being a newbie to tractors.
shouldn't the pressure plate spin when the flywheel spins or am I missing something here?
I bought this thing with the loader and got a good price [I think] and would really like to try my hand at refurbishing this thing, paint and all.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
mark

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Steve - IN

06-16-2002 20:54:04




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 Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mark, 06-16-2002 13:53:13  
mark,

I'm not sure how you're seeing the flywheel turn, unless you're looking at it thru the timing cover.

My first inclination is that the Bendix gear -- the gear from the starter motor that engages the flywheel is just trashed out. That's the easiest thing to replace.

In a 1020, the ring gear -- the gear the starter engages on the flywheel -- is on the north side, that is towards the engine. It looks like a separate piece in my tech manual, and might have broken free of the flywheel. The only alternative is that the 4 bolts and 4 pins that secure the flywheel to the crank have all broken loose at once....which is (I hope) the least likely case... otherwise the engine would turn with the flywheel.

If there is a flywheel problem, you're going to have to split the tractor. The Bendix gear just requires pulling the starter motor. You might also pull the round inspection cover that's on the left side of the housing, just behind the clutch and under the battery box. It should give you a better view of what's going on in there.

I'm guessing you don't have a service manual, so let me know if you need any text or exploded drawings from the manual sent to you.

Steve

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Mark

06-16-2002 22:12:50




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 Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Steve - IN, 06-16-2002 20:54:04  
I opened the hole [plug] on the left side [looking from rear of tractor] and there appears to be a pressure plate in there and if I rotate it then the engine will turn which I think rules out sheared bolts on the flywheel to crank idea.
Now what you are saying about a ring gear coming loose really makes sense, so it sounds like the ring gear is slipping around flywheel. Are you saying the ring gear and flywheel is seperate?
If so then how do they attach to each other?
Welded? Bolted? I do know that on a car only the automatic transmissions have seperate pieces and they are welded together. On the manuals that I have worked on are all one piece.
Could you possibly send the picture of the flywheel,clutch and pressure plate blowup?
I was turning the flywheel through the hole that the starter goes in on the right side of the tractor and it was pretty easy to turn. I'll remove the starter again and see if I can see the two different pieces and if they are slipping.
Thanks again.
Mark
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Steve - IN

06-17-2002 15:07:00




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 Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Mark, 06-16-2002 22:12:50  
third party image

Mark,

Here's the exploded view of the clutch you asked for. This is the 2 stage, live PTO clutch -- which I'm guessing is the one you have.

I agree, it doesn't make much sense that the flywheel would suddenly come unglued from the crank. And I did have some small Ford car engines -- 1600 Kents -- that had the ring gear on the flywheel with pins and spot welds. Doesn't make much sense that it would come loose either -- but if the Bendix gear is OK, there aren't many other alternative theories.

Sorry the picture is about 1/4 of a meg. Wanted you to be able to read the legends.

Steve

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mike

06-16-2002 16:42:56




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 Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mark, 06-16-2002 13:53:13  
The ring gear may be turning on the flywheel or starter drive may be bad, the clutch pressure should turn with the flywheel



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mark

06-16-2002 20:02:17




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 Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mike, 06-16-2002 16:42:56  
wouldn't the ring gear just pop right off the flywheel if that were true about the ring gear being loose. I was under the assumption that the ring gear was welded onto the flywheel and if it came loose it would just fall off towards the back. Is this not true on a tractor and are they different than on a car? Are they bolted onto the flywheel somehow?
Thanks for your help
Mark



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mike

06-17-2002 19:17:19




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 Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mark, 06-16-2002 20:02:17  
To check for a loose ring gear first install a new drive in starter so you know it is probablly good then put a mark on the ring and one on the flywheel then crank it over and see if the marks still line up or if they moved apart. Also I had a bad armature once the starter ran but the starter shaft did not turn. If you have a local starter shop that can load test the starter that would be a good first step to eliminate it.

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Matthew

06-17-2002 18:04:32




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 Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mark, 06-16-2002 20:02:17  
I just rebuilt my 1020 diesel last year.

The ring gear around the flywheel stays in place simply by expansion and contraction. When you replace the ring gear, you heat the ring gear to get it off with a torch or pound it off with a hammer.

You then take the new ring gear (only about $20 from mother deere) and put it in your oven at 400 degrees for about 30 minutes. This heats it up and causes it to expand. Clean the flywheel well and then quickly place the new ring gear on the flywheel, using oven mitts. It will fall in place, cool, contract, and grab on to the flywheel where it is almost impossible to move.

My thoughts on your problem - the entire ring gear could have come loose (which could happen if it wears enough around the flywheel) or it is stripped, or the gear in the starter is striped.

Either way (except for the striped gear on the starter) you will have to split the tractor in half. This is not easy, but can be done in an afternoon.

Good luck and let me know!!!!

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Mark

06-17-2002 19:55:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Matthew, 06-17-2002 18:04:32  
Thanks for all the help guys.
I guess it's splitting the tractor now.
Doesn't sound like much fun though.
It sounds like you all are right about the ring gear being loose on the flywheel. Thats got to be what it is because the starter was tested good and you can hear the starter barely straining as its turning the ring gear but evidently it's not attached to the flywheel good enough to turn the engine over. Just my luck I guess but I will fix it if it's the last thing I do. I've got to hear this thing run. I'll split this thing apart and let you all know what I find in there. If you are anything like you just have to fix it just because it's broke.
thanks again
Mark

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mark

06-17-2002 23:46:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Mark, 06-17-2002 19:55:53  
Hey Steve guess what I found??!!
You guessed it the ring gear is slipping around the inner piece. This is different than what you sent in the drawing, at least it looks different to me. The ring gear is about a half inch thick from the top if the teeth to the inside of the gear which is different than your drawing. Did they make different ones for different years?
Some questions if I may is, what is the module mounted inside the battery area just to the right of the steering wheel? The module says motorola on the top of it. I am assuming this thing is 12 volt and negative ground? If I say please, please and please is it possible for you to send a wiring diagram for this tractor? JD 1020, type t4r1c and serial# is 136295t year 1972 I believe.
Does john deere still make parts for this thing?
Thanks for all the advice and the exploded views.
Mark
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Steve - IN

06-18-2002 10:43:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to mark, 06-17-2002 23:46:36  
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Mark,

There are 4 exploded clutch drawings in my service manual. Disregarding the 1530 and 2030 clutches, the only one with a diiferent looking flywheel is the single stage clutch drawing -- the PTO and drive gears engage at the same time. Is that what you've got?

The module under the dash is probably the voltage regulator. The only other box under there is the flasher for the left rear amber light.

Yes, they're 12 Volts negative ground, and your Deere dealers still has or can get parts for them -- there is one guy at our dealer who has a soft spot in his heart for 1020's and 2020's, and who actually worked on them when they were new. Mine is a '66, so it's older than most of the people working there now. Ha.

The only thing I have that's close to a wiring diagram is the charging circuit, and another drawing of the back of the key switch. Other than that; the 4 lights, two idiot lights and the cigarette lighter aren't covered. Here's the charging circuit. Let me know if you need anything else.

Steve

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Mark

06-18-2002 12:51:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Steve - IN, 06-18-2002 10:43:50  
My clutch is definitely a two stage but just doesn't look like that diagram, too wierd.
What do you think about putting about 6 small tack welds on the flywheel to hold it in place or is that a no no? Thanks for the dircuit diagram it will come in handy. The diagram you sent looks like it is for a generator instead of an alternator, mine has an alternator with 1 wire.
I assume that hooks to the starter stud where the positive battery cable hooks up, is this right?
I need to rewire the whole tractor cause someone has really gotten things screwed up.
Thanks again for all your help.
Mark

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Steve - IN

06-18-2002 14:05:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Mark, 06-18-2002 12:51:52  
Mark,

I'd think tack welds are the way to go. A purist might say you're upsetting the balance of the flywheel/crank -- but it doesn't rev that high. Somebody with a long stick on a MIG welder might be able to fix it thru the starter hole....just make sure it gets on straight.

The diagram is for the Motorola alternator. That's what mine has, and it's older than yours. That one wire you see may be a cable bundle that splits out behind a back cover of the alternator. From memory, on mine there are two separate cables coming out of the firewall -- one cable to the alternator, one to the starter. Can't remember any connection from the alternator to the starter, but I can double check tonight.

Steve

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Mark

06-18-2002 20:47:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Steve - IN, 06-18-2002 14:05:07  
Steve, I think someone has replaced the generator system with a newer delco 1 wire alternator with internal regulator and also bypassed the external regulator. Well I tack welded the ring gear to the flywheel and now the turns when the starter is engaged, hooray! Now I get to rewire this thing, lights, ignition and charging circuit.
Where can I get a manual that shows where all the proper stuff goes as far as wiring, reasonable?
There is a small cylindrical tank about 12 inches long and about 6 inches in diameter mounted in front of the radiator but behind the gas tank with some hydraulic hoses going to the front pump.
What goes in this tank?
Thanks for all your help.
Mark

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Steve - IN

06-19-2002 10:07:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Mark, 06-18-2002 20:47:43  
Mark,

The I&T service manual I have only covers Motorola and Bosch alternators. I think the Bosch was only used on the 1530 built in Mannheim Germany. So I think the Delco may be a mod you won't find in any service manual. They have manuals on this site, or you might find one at your local John Deere dealer, or you might find on on ebay.

The tank you're talking about is a cooling tank/ reservoir for the main hydraulic pump below it -- the pump that is driven from the front of the crank. You don't have to fill it, just make sure it doesn't leak. You fill the hydraulics thru the hole behind the seat. There are return lines going to the main pump, the power steering pump, and the tranny pump.

Steve

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Mark

06-19-2002 12:53:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Steve - IN, 06-19-2002 10:07:55  
Thanks for all your help on this thing.
I'll try not to bother you any more, you have been such a great help.
Thank you Steve
Mark



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Steve - IN

06-19-2002 14:22:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1020 flywheel question HELP!!!! in reply to Mark, 06-19-2002 12:53:32  
Mark,

No problem, you're welcome. I've had my 1020 for over 20 years... so I've gotten to know it a fairly well... or maybe I've forgotten most of what I've gotten to know about it. In any event, good luck with yours. They are good tractors.

Steve



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