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Starter motor engagement

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John Logsdon

08-25-2002 19:28:14




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I just bought an 820D with pony motor. When I try to pull in the starter's clutch lever the gear is already spinning and makes a terrible grinding noise when it hits the flywheel. If I partially engage it before starting the pony, the starter gear engages the flywheel properly and starts the main engine without out any noise. I don't have a manual yet and want to pull it for the first time next week. Hate to embarass myself with the starting procedure in front of everyone. Could anyone help me?

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Brandon

08-26-2002 19:43:52




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 Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-25-2002 19:28:14  
John,

This sounds VERY familiar! We just realized that my 80 is doing the same thing-whenever the pony was running, the gear was turning. That isn't right!

Pulling the lever partially back should move the gear onto the flywheel, then all the way back the gear should start cranking the diesel.

You can adjust the clutch to fix it, but you'll need a service manual to get everything right. We slightly loosened the pony clutch on our 80, but we haven't had a chance to see if that fixed it. I sure hope so!

Good luck!
Brandon

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John Logsdon

08-27-2002 19:25:50




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 Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to Brandon, 08-26-2002 19:43:52  
Thanks Ralph and Brandon.
Brandon, I read of you restoration saga and it was very interesting and entertaining. I look forward to its conclusion and some pictures. You are doing what I will have to do.



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Clooney

08-26-2002 17:28:11




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 Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-25-2002 19:28:14  
John, that can get expensive in a hurry.
~There are many things that can cause the problem you are seeing, from the yoke adjustment, to a mis-adjusted clutch, to worn or missing teeth on the flywheel ring gear, to excess crankshaft end play, to worn crankshaft thrust washers, to a worn pinion, to a worn pony pinion shaft bushing, to an incorrectly shimmed pony motor, or all, or some of the above.
~I would have to type a novel on how to adjust all the things mentioned above so your best bet would be a manual [actually the I&T manual {JD-201} does a pretty good on adjusting the pony engagement & clutch].
~You will have to visually inspect the flywheel for worn teeth & make sure you are getting full pinion engagement [with pony not running & flywheel cover off, pull the starting handle & look to see if the pony pinion if fully engaging the flywheel teeth]. While in there try to move the flywheel in & out & if very much movement is observed you will have to set the crank end play. Also look at the pinion shaft outer bushing [the first bushing on the outer end] to see if it looks worn & the pinion shaft is loose in the bushing. ~In the mean time I have found that SOMETIMES you can reduce or even eliminate the grinding by starting the pony & after it warms up put the pony throttle control back to the starting position to slow the pony down then decompress & engage the pony, then as soon as it is engaged use your free hand [you'll find a way] & put the pony throttle in the run position to start the Diesel... [at least it works on the 720-730]..

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jimmy funk

08-26-2002 16:19:33




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 Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-25-2002 19:28:14  
i have a 70 diesl that does the same thing u have to take the cover off of the gear and u can eather get a ne one i was quoted 350 dollors or take it and get it heated and reversed if the hole thing isnt ate up thanks jimmy



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jimmy funk

08-26-2002 16:18:55




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 Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-25-2002 19:28:14  
i have a 70 diesl that does the same thing u have to take the cover off of the gear and u can eather get a ne one i was quoted 350 dollors or tale it and get it heated and reversed if the hole thing isnt ate up thanks jimmy



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Ralph

08-25-2002 21:26:00




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 Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-25-2002 19:28:14  
Sounds like your clutch is partially engaged. What is worse than embarassing your self is to bust something. Embarassment is free, parts cost real money. I wouldn't use the starter until it was adjusted properly. I have a service manual, but the best I could do is surface mail or fax. Let me know if you need added help. Warning - I am a novice but I did help rebuild the SE on my 820. It gets to warm up before I crank the diesel!

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John Logsdon

08-26-2002 18:46:11




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 Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to Ralph, 08-25-2002 21:26:00  
Thank you all for responding.
I removed the flywheel cover and watched the starter engagement. When the pony is running, its gear is turning and this causes noise when the engagement is initiated. Is the starter gear supposed to be at rest until the engagement lever is pulled? This seems to be my problem. I can avoid all the problem by partially engaging the starter before cranking the starter motor. Then I can fully engage the starter and cranking proceeds as it should. What do you think?

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Ralph

08-26-2002 19:04:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-26-2002 18:46:11  
The proper sequence is engagement of the gear and as the clutch pulled further, engagement of the clutch to crank the engine. Follow Clooney's advice.



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John Logsdon

08-26-2002 19:09:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to Ralph, 08-26-2002 19:04:44  
Thanks Ralph,
I have been cranking the pony first, then pulling the compression lever, then engaging the pony to the main engine with the left lever. Is this the wrong procedure?



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G Taylor

08-27-2002 21:49:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-26-2002 19:09:33  
You are correct to engage the already running starting engine to the diesel after the decompression lever is pulled. Diesel throttle should be all the way back with the dash stop knob pulled out, this reduces washing down cylinder walls with raw diesel fuel. After oil pressure appears apply compression for a couple of rotations then advance diesel throttle ahead from "shut off" position. You should have seen the wife's cousins & uncle with their 730. For over a year they were stopping it by pulling the decompression lever or stalling it in 6th gear. They seemed shocked by the presence of the throttle stop knob when shown.

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John Logsdon

08-28-2002 19:21:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to G Taylor, 08-27-2002 21:49:44  
Thanks for your comment. I farmed with a 720D in the 60's and never encountered a problem with the starting motor; could work the levers with one hand. I never thought about washing the cylinders down.
When I bought the tractor, I couldn't start it without grinding it. The seller said; "push the engaging lever forward for a moment and then slowly pull back." When he then did this, it worked properly. I've tried that, doesn't work for me.

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Ralph

08-26-2002 21:36:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Starter motor engagement in reply to John Logsdon, 08-26-2002 19:09:33  
That is the correct procedure, but as Clooney said, something is not adjusted correctly. If you want to pull with it this weekend, why not get a pull start for it? Second or third gear with an A starts my 820.



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