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1944 John Deere hand start timing

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Wayne A. Johnso

11-02-2002 15:13:47




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When timing my magnento everything looks fine. The mag driver is horizontal, new points, condenser,cap and roter. I turn the mag all the way forward, but when I rotate the flywheel, the mag will impulse about 1.5 in from TDC. I have set the timing marks on the back of the mag 2 1/5 marks to the left of center. Why can I not get impulse at TDC, Not before? I would think that I'm already at advanced timing during hand start, and very advanced when running-HELP..

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Will P

11-02-2002 21:42:41




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 Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Wayne A. Johnson, 11-02-2002 15:13:47  
Do everything Clooney says. But one thing. Is the flywheel on right.

I just got a non running 49G home. Couldn't get timed. Clicked off about 6 inches soon. Was just about to re-time governor. Lined up the "Left hand impulse" #1 piston was not top dead center. Flywheel was not on right.

Hope you find out what is up

Will P



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Clooney

11-02-2002 16:16:34




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 Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Wayne A. Johnson, 11-02-2002 15:13:47  
Wayne, what is your mag make & model? Is there a stamping number on the impulse cup?
~When the mag drive flange is horizontal is the flywheel L/H impulse mark lined up with the case mark?
~Presuming you have a Wico mag;.. if the drive flange is horizontal with the flywheel L/H impulse lined up with the case mark, & the impulse stop ring is set 2-1/2 marks left of center [looking from the back of the mag], it should snap at L/H impulse with the mag pretty well in the middle of travel.
~On the 44 "A" the timing can run 3-1/2 to 4 marks left of center [30°-32.5°] on gasoline. But that shouldn't be required to get the mag to line up.
~Again, assuming you have a Wico mag, you could have the wrong impulse cup, worn parts in the impulse, not enough spring wind up [some XHD's use a 7/8" spacing washer & use 1-1/2 turns spring wind up, or the cam drive train is worn & allowing the drive flange to be out of place while turning.
~You didn't say if it is snapping 1-1/2" early or late but with the mag position you gave I will assume it is early. If it isn't kicking back on you when you start it, it might not be off as far as it seems.
~If you have a timing light you can check the dynamic [running timing] by powering the light with a remote battery, hooking the light to the L/H plug wire [you will probably need a short piece of resistor plug wire for the light to function] & placing a mark on the flywheel at 25° or 30° BTDC, then running the engine at fast idle & pointing the light at the flywheel. [If you want to do that, let me know & I will give you the procedure for degreeing the flywheel]....

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Wayne A Johnson

11-03-2002 08:00:06




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 Re: Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Clooney, 11-02-2002 16:16:34  
Mr Clooney, Thanks for the help. My mag is a Wico C mag. I checked to make sure mag drive, L/H impulse to case cover all aligned. I also made sure piston was at TDC.I'm not sure just what part of mag you are refering to as "impulse cup"? At impulse I am 1-1/2" from aligning with mark on case cover.On the back of mag I set it 2-1/2 marks to the left from center. When hand craking I do get some kick back, but I can still get it to start. My flywheel measures 60in arround so I figure I'm about 8/9 degrees before TDC when cranking and probably about 33-34 degrees befor TDC when running.I could adjust back of mag to 1-1/2 marks to left to get closer to 25 degrees BTDC when running, but would really like to figure out why mag is tripping so early to start with. I think it would help with starting if impulse was a TDC too. Thanks again for all the help, Wayne

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Clooney

11-03-2002 08:54:59




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 Re: Re: Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Wayne A Johnson, 11-03-2002 08:00:06  
Wayne, the impulse cup is the drive cup with the 2 drive lugs on it. I wouldn't worry too much about a number on the Wico C as I don't think the C ever used a 25° cup or a 1-1/2 turn spring.
~Don't automatically assume you have 33-34° running timing without checking it in a mag tester, or with a light on the tractor. It sounds like you have an impulse problem so there is no way of guessing if the running timing is good or not. ~You have a few options; move the governor drive coupling, move the impulse stop ring, use a light & see what the running timing to impulse timing spread is, find someone with a mag tester, or pull the impulse assembly apart & try to figure out what is going on. ~With the flywheel lined up at L/H impulse to case mark see if you can rotate the drive coupling in the governor, maybe you are fighting slop in the crank/cam/governor gear set..... .

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Wayne Johnson

11-03-2002 17:12:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Clooney, 11-03-2002 08:54:59  
Mr clooney, I think I found the problem. When I brought my JD, I noticed the governer had fresh sealent arroud it. This afternoon I removed the mag agian and went VERY carefully threw the timing setup. Useing a level to make sure I was right on with timing mark on flywheel to case cover. A more careful look at the drive on the governer showed it to NOT be dead level, but slightly pass. about 1/8 in. I'm woundering if when the governer was reinstalled it got a tooth off. I believe if I turned the governer drive gear to cam back 1 tooth it would put the mag driver level and allow timing to be adjusted to TDC. What do you think? Is this possible? Would 1 tooth change be about right?

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Clooney

11-03-2002 17:39:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Wayne Johnson, 11-03-2002 17:12:51  
Wayne, yes it's possible. You can basically move that governor gear to any position without effecting anything but the mag timing.
~You might be able to move the governor gear to cam by removing the L/H governor cover [don't lose the gaskets as they are also shims] & pulling the governor gear to the left & up. I haven't done this on a 44"A" but have done it on other 2 cylinder Deere's.
~You might want to call Deere to see if that governor bottom gasket is still available, the unstyled "A" wasn't being serviced anymore last time I needed one, not sure on the styled. The down side of pulling the L/H cover is sometimes the L/H governor bearing is worn & the balls will fall out when the cover is removed then you will have to fish them out of the governor bottom & sometimes the crankcase.

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Wayne Johnson

11-06-2002 12:44:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1944 John Deere hand start timing in reply to Clooney, 11-03-2002 17:39:40  
Well I pulled the governer cover off after I checked and made sure the LHI was inline with the case cover. I made sure the piston was at TDC and both valves were closed. The governer drive gear and cam gear were matched up. Everything look correct to me. I don't understand why I can not get it to impulse at TDC, and not before. I believe I will have to live with it where it is. Mabey I'm being to fussy. If you would would you give me direction on how to time it with a timing light? At least I could have it at 25 degrees when it is running. Thanks for all your time and help, I can't thank you enouth, Wayne

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