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Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel Motor

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Brad

06-07-2003 19:02:14




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I have a 35 with standard motors diesel.Have rebuilt engine complete,including injector pump,and injectors.I have always had problem starting,have to use starting fluid even when warm.Compression is good,injectors are all good,pump is good,timing is good.I cant figure why the thing does not want to start.

Any comments are welcome Thanks Brad




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David

06-09-2003 07:41:37




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 Re: Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel Motor in reply to Brad, 06-07-2003 19:02:14  
The reason it doesn't start easily is because it is not designed too well in the first place. Standard engine is notorious for this problem.

I did a little research into this and so far as I can gather, main problem is that it is an indirect injection engine but doesn't have glow plugs in each cylinder like it probably should. The "standard" Standard 23c engine just tries to get by with a manifold heater plug and it just doesn't cut it. Its like trying to start a diesel car engine when the heater plugs aren't working.

I believe there is a cold climate head available that has plugs in each individual cylinder. Never seen one but I'd bet they start fine.

The underlying reasons for indirect injection engines needing heater plugs are (allegedly) because:- (i) when starting from cold the rate of heat loss from cylinder is high and because fo this it is hard to get the air hot enough to ignite the fuel; and, (ii) It is harder to ignite fuel that is being injected into a (cooler) combustion chamber rather than directly into the hot air in the cylinder inself.

Heater plugs compensate for these problems. Most also heat for a time after engine starts until it gets warmed up enough to no longer need any help. Fast cranking speed helps a lot. Direct injection engines don't have as much heat loss and are injecting fuel into centre of the hot air charge in the cylinder and so don't usually need cylinder glow plugs to get going. Also, because of lower thermal losses they are a bit more fuel efficient but the downside is that they are noisier and smokier too. Hence they tend to be found in trucks and tractors rather than cars. I have heard of an unoffical modification to 23c head that involves opening out the combution chamber a bit to allow a degree of direct injection to take place but it would be a brave soul who'd experiment with this if they didn't have some experience of it.

I have a 23c and it won't start without heat unless engine is reasonably warm. (i.e. has been running at workign temperature in last half hour)

Assuming injection timing is ok, there's probably not a lot wrong with your tractor. I'd just make sure battery is giving its best and starter is working well too. Could also try using a block heater if it is a problem. I would defintely do that if you are in a cold climate.

[Heat losses from the cylinder in indirect engines are higher than in direct injection because they have a greater surface area/cylinder volume ratio becasue of the presence of the combustion chamber which direct doesn't have. - apparently.]

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Tom

06-11-2003 09:25:00




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 Re: Re: Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel Motor in reply to David, 06-09-2003 07:41:37  
I have a MF TO-35 Standard Motors Diesel that has 4 Glow plugs; However, they were at sometime wired straight from the battery,this burns them out as soon as they are turned on. They were original Eq. Dose anybody know how I need to hook them up? Stamped on the glow plug is 1.7V I assume that means 1.7 Volts. Thanks.



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David

06-11-2003 17:18:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel M in reply to Tom, 06-11-2003 09:25:00  
I gather some older Landrovers have series wired heater plugs and maybe that's how those ones are supposed to be wired. 4 times 1.7V would give 6.8V so they may also be intended for a 6V system. I may be totally wrong as I'm just hazarding a guess. One snag with series wired is that if one burns out, none of them will work.



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Bob in CA

06-09-2003 06:55:55




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 Re: Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel Motor in reply to Brad, 06-07-2003 19:02:14  
Brad,
These can be very hard starting tractors but resist the temptation to use starting fluid. These engines are not friendly to starting fluid and it can break rings and lands in your pistons. I have had two of these apart with broken rings that were the result of starting fluid. As Jack mentioned, the best fix for your engine is to use a block heater. It is not always convenient but it makes the tractor usable. One of my tractors has the later glow plug head. I have made some adapters to use GM style glow plugs that protrude further into the pre-combustion chambers. This make the tractor start in any temps down to about 28 degrees F. For your engine without the glow plugs, get the block heater.
Bob

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Jack in NB

06-08-2003 04:53:14




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 Re: Massey35 with Standard Motors Diesel Motor in reply to Brad, 06-07-2003 19:02:14  

Hi Brad -

Rick from australia had a similar question on the ferguson board yesterday.

I've added the link below, if it works!



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