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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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FE 35 4cyl Diesel

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Ali,fae Crieff.

10-10-2003 09:39:04




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We have just aquired another tractor which by it's serial no. was made in late '58 and I have a couple of questions for you "experts" uot there,
1) why is the Standard 23C engine such a poor starter? or has it just had a bad press?
2) this one we have got has a thermostart unit on the inlet manifold,is this system not "man" enough?
3) If we get round to painting it,bearing in mind we are in the U.K., what colour should her chassis be? Light Grey,Flint Grey,Flint Grey metallic, or Stoneleigh Grey? bonnet and wings will be MF Super Red I presume.
Thanks in advance, Ali.

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David UK

10-11-2003 21:33:45




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 Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to Ali,fae Crieff., 10-10-2003 09:39:04  
FE35 has manifold thermostart as standard in UK. It is hard to start because, like most diesel cars it is indirect injection. That means diesel is injected into a combustion chamber rather than directly into cylinder as in a direct injection engine. With indirect injection you have a larger internal surface area within the cylinder for the same cylinder volume than in direct because of extra area of the combustion chamber. That means the diesel/air charge cools down more in the cylider and is harder to ignite. If compression is low either because of poor mechanical condition or low cranking speed it just will not get hot enough to burn. To counteract this most indirect injection engines have individual glow plugs in each cylinder. FE35 does not but tries to get by with just the manifold heater which is not as good. There is a "cold climate" head for the FE35 that has glow plugs in each cylinder. I've also heard of a modification to the combustion chamber outlet that allows a degree of direct injection to take place and apparently that gets some of the injected diesel into the hotter parts of the cylinder and helps but it would be a brave man that would take a grindstone to the cylinder head without proof it worked and knowing what to do! Mine starts ok with manifold heater but it does need it every time unless engine if hot. Making sure battery is good and compression is good is about all you can do without modifications. Aerostart was always an essential item in the toolbox of an old FE35 we used to have. If its late 58 it might be a grey/gold FE. You'd need to check serial number or look for remnants of the original colour. Not sure what colour of grey it should be. FE35 grey for the grey/gold one is a colour in its own right so far as I can see. Its lighter than TE20 grey. I'd guess Stoneleigh grey but an not sure.

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JC Eire

10-14-2003 08:34:11




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 Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to David UK, 10-11-2003 21:33:45  
Does anyone know any more about these "cold climate" heads? Is it possible to add glow plugs to the std. european head (manifold heater)
I have a 23C for many years and if as David UK suggests the battery, starter and manifold heater are kept in good working order it starts quite easily in warm weather. If there is frost however it will start but only after a long struggle.(I usually drain the water in frosty weather and fill it up with boiling water-starts much easier then)
As regards the grinding modification, from what I've heard it doesnt work and in some cases has had the opposite effect.
I've been thinking of fitting glow plugs for some time now so any information would be greatly appreciated.

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Ali,fae Crieff

10-14-2003 14:31:25




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 Re: Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to JC Eire, 10-14-2003 08:34:11  
JC How much is a struggle? Heater for 10secs,crank for 10secs,heat for 10secs, crank and start? or worse than that? I am interested because of our freebie but I don't understand why our 65 isn't as bad since it's a similar engine,
I've also just spoken to a chap with one who has no problem starting his since he replaced the themostart and that on a "smokey" tractor lacking compression.



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JC Eire

10-15-2003 04:21:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to Ali,fae Crieff, 10-14-2003 14:31:25  
Much worse than that - the whole operation could take 10 minutes - bear in mind that this is with no assisstance apart from the flame heater in the manifold, so engine could be at 2 or 3 degrees C.
Dont know anything about your 65 I'm afraid. I heard once that the chain timing on the 35 was some of the problem - maybe that and better compression is the diference for the 65.



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Ali,fae Crieff

10-15-2003 10:09:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to JC Eire, 10-15-2003 04:21:53  
JC and David, thanks for your comments, I will let you know how we get on when we get round to getting her started. Cheers, Ali.



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Ali, fae Crieff

10-12-2003 11:54:59




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 Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to David UK, 10-11-2003 21:33:45  
David, thanks for the info, but I was wondering why the Mk1 65 did'nt have the same problems considering it is similar to the 23c in being indirect injection with thermostart.?



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David

10-14-2003 18:34:33




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 Re: Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to Ali, fae Crieff, 10-12-2003 11:54:59  
To be honest, I don't know why its different. Early Perkins 3.152 was indirect too and starts more easily than 23c. Maybe higher compression or higher cranking speed or different injecction position/pattern. Don't know. When I use the thermostart on my 23c I heat it till I hear it pop. That is when diesel supply to it ignites and takes about 15 seconds in my case. It seems to start ok doing that.

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David

10-14-2003 18:42:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to David, 10-14-2003 18:34:33  
Draining and filling with hot water helps. We used to do that too. BUT having taken liners out of our JD2030 a few years ago and seen the pitting on them, I'm quite keen to keep water and antifreeze/coolant in the engine all the time as I'm told that water only contributes to pitting. Also continually changing water adds fresh oxygen each time and probably increases internal rusting of engine. It certainly does on central heating systems so I reckon it can't be that good for engines either. But it does get them started which I suppose is better than having a perfectly preserved but non-running tractor. JD had steel wet liners which probably are more prone to pitting than cast material of engine block itself. Don't know what's in FE.

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JOHN (LA)

10-12-2003 05:42:01




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 Re: Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to David UK, 10-11-2003 21:33:45  
The FE35 change from the gold/grey to the red/grey in 1957 at serial# 74656. If his is a 1958 it would be red/gray.



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matt

10-11-2003 17:11:00




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 Re: FE 35 4cyl Diesel in reply to Ali,fae Crieff., 10-10-2003 09:39:04  
The 23C is a bad starter. I have a 58 that I have completly rebuilt. Sometimes it can be a real bugger. I have a intake heater installed and it helps alot. She will not start by her self at all. Need to use the intake heater. Some people use either but I perfer not to seems to hard on the motor. I have heard some newer 23C had glow plugs and that has helped there starting. You could convert your head to glow plugs but could cost alot of $. Not sure about the paint but I think some of the FE's where green?

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