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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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cavitation

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Bob

11-11-2003 05:40:07




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In reference to a discussion in a different forum, the talk was about adding certain additives to the coolant of some diesels with wet sleaves to prevent cavitation and damage to the sleaves. Does this pertain to my MF 35 perkins? What additive are they talking about?




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David UK

11-13-2003 05:41:45




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 Re: cavitation in reply to Bob, 11-11-2003 05:40:07  
I have posted about this somewhere else I think.

I am not an expert in thsi but did a bit of searching around on the web. What I learned was that it is a potential problem with wet liners but not with dry sleaves which I think is what MF35 has. My personal experience was with a John Deere 2030 on which I had to do an engine rebuild after the oil pump failed and it seized up. The dealer almost insisted that I should pull a liner to inspect it, saying that it would be pitted. I took his advice and was glad I did. Pitting was almost 1/8 inch deep in places. It has wet liners. Cavitation apparently happens along the thrust line of the piston when the liner "rings" like a bell as the cylinder fires. Unlined engine blocks and dry lined blocks allegedly have more rigidity and so the cavitation is not such a problem as it is on wet lined ones. I suppose the material the liners are made from might affect it too. It seems to be a well reported thing with large capacity diesels like truck and plant engines and there are a few web documents about it. John Deere have a (very expensive) ready to use coolant that they claim should be used. Personally I think it might be cheaper to replace the liners every 20 years. (4 @£40 each against £27 for a single fill of coolant!) What I saw on the 2030 convinces me it does happen. Whather additives or special coolants actually help to stop it, I don't know.

I wouldn't worry about it on 35. My FE35 has survived 50 years on water and antifreeze mix. From what I have seen of the inside of one or two cast iron engine blocks when replacing core plugs, they don't seem to be pitted like the JD liners were. Main consolation is if wet liner does hole right through, it can be replaced quite easily.

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Allan C

11-11-2003 19:17:50




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 Re: cavitation in reply to Bob, 11-11-2003 05:40:07  
I have heard of this bubble business. It is mainly a problem on hard working diesels. The Case 451/504 tractor engines seem to have this problem. There is special antifreeze available from CaseIH and I'm sure almost everyone else for their larger diesels. It seems that it's the vibration of the sleeve as mush as anything that causes this. I wouldn't think it would be a problem on a 35.



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TO35

11-11-2003 15:35:22




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 Re: cavitation in reply to Bob, 11-11-2003 05:40:07  
Bob...There are many different names of it such as nalcool(used by international) (dca used by gm) its mostly used it over the road trucks and now a days the smaller diesel pick ups. Very few "that I know of" tractor manufactures recommend it. because of thicker sleves and the material its made of...Theorectly air bubbles form on the out side of sleves during opperation and the addatives prevent them from forming there causing hot spots and thus blowing a hole thru the cylinder wall it also coats inside the cooling system.I have personally rebuilt many diesel tractor engines and have never seen 1 sleve with a hole in it due to cavation.I have talked to several enginers about adding dca to a tractors coolant system and they said it cannot hurt. My theory is if the mfg. tells you to use it...use it...other wise its not needed. Cost can also be a factor its approx. $10 a pint and the test strips are $1 a peice(sold in bottles of 50)
and every manafactor recommends it own brand .I do not recall it recommended for an older perkins.


hope this helps
best wishes
TO

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red

11-13-2003 07:05:15




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 Re: Re: cavitation in reply to TO35, 11-11-2003 15:35:22  
I have a oliver 1650 that had a hole in the wet sleive cylinder #6 that was due to the "bubble cavitation". I bought the oliver "as is" and it cost a new slieve piston,head, bearings & oil pump to restore to operating condition. Inspection of my other diesel tractors warrented the instalation of the additive.



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