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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel.

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Ali, fae Crieff

04-10-2004 14:37:33




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Hi guys, Happy Easter, how about giving me a hand with this one? We recently acquired the above with siezed engine and hydraulics,it cost us nothing so we are using her to broaden our skills, however we have given up on the engine and have taken the head off to reveal 2 rather rusty liners,water having got in through the exhaust,so we need to spend some cash here but the next problem is that the lift arms are very "sticky" and need to be forced to move.
Having drained the gearbox of "milky" oil,along with nearly a gallon of water, and having removed the inspection plates, nothing looks visibly wrong and I can see the levers moving whilst operating the quadrant controls,therefore is it possible that the stiffness in the lift arms is due to stickiness in the main ram and is it possible for this to "free" off if used or should I be checking for something else? as any cost in this department will colour whether or not we repair the engine. Cheers, Ali.

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Thomas

04-12-2004 12:22:38




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 Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to Ali, fae Crieff., 04-10-2004 14:37:33  
These engines have very thin walled dry liners which are not a press fit into the block. I have always thought that this could contribute towards their poor starting. You should replace the liners and rings as a matter of course on this engine, as they are so light they are not that dear. Also whenever you change the rings or liners you must change at least the big end shells, preferably the mains also, as the added compression can cause old shells to fail. Be very carefull with the thrust washers, they are virtually impossible to find replacements for.

Try undoing the big end caps (remembering to number them) and knocking the liners out complete with pistons. You can then try both warming the liners (carefully as the pistons will expand more quickly than the liners) or puttingthe liner in a press, maybe even cutting the liner in half (carefully!)

Other important things on this engine, always renew the timing chain and the thermostart unit, and make sure you clean the gauze in the sump well before reassembly or the oil pump will cavitate.

I suggest that you strip both the lift head and the pump, neither are particularly dificult if you are methodical and many parts are available including complete pump overhaul kits and the lift cylinder rings. I have come across siezed lift arms before, you need a big trough of diesel to soak the ends of the cross shaft, and sometimes a lot of heat as well. Get the lift arms off and get it all cleaned up, greased and put back together. Replace the cross shaft o-rings. I always remove the quadrant if I've had to strip the lift head, get it shotblasted and re-plated. They look much better and if you're going to show it in the future will make all the difference to the appearance.

I recommend that you do all these jobs at once, if you try to turn the engine and the pump has siezed then you're only making more trouble for yourself!

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sibby(Aus)

04-12-2004 17:03:08




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 Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to Thomas, 04-12-2004 12:22:38  
Thomas, have you ever changed the main bearing shells on a 23c standard diesel? engine block has a whopping hole line bored through it, main bearing shells are fitted into two half moon housings which wrap around crankshaft, locked together with two allen headed bolts and torqued , then slid gently from one end of engine block to the other, then secured and torqued again. the engine has to be removed from tractor completely to accomplish this. the front axle wheeled away, then remove engine from gearbox ,remove clutch assembly etc. as for sleeves, i reckon they are very thick compared to perkins engines, are you sure youre not confusing them with perkins sleeves? the standard diesels are completely different engine to perkins, or any other diesel i have seen in regards to crankshaft locating design. cheers!!!!! !!!!!

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Thomas

04-13-2004 12:18:14




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 Re: Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to sibby(Aus), 04-12-2004 17:03:08  
Yes, I have one of these myself and did a full rebuild a few years ago. The liners are thin walled considering how looseley they fit in the block. They can be pulled out by hand with no puller, there is a 'special tool' available to prevent the liners coming out when turning the engine over with the head off. If they were an interference fit like Perkins type, requiring a puller to extract, they would be supported all round and as such hold their shape much better than these do. My theory is that when the engine cools these liners can become slightly oval thus giving poor compression on cold starting. As they warm up they become a tighter fit. As for rusty liners, given the poor starting tendencies of this engine at the best of times change them, you'll only regret it if you don't.

I agree that the main bearing retainers are unusual, and as I recall the crank is extremely heavy to remove/refit. The best way is to drop the block on it's back and lower the crank in downwards through the front. That's why I said that to change the mains was preferable but not as important as changing the big ends. Mine were 20 thou oval so the crank had to be reground to the smallest size. I recall that it took several weeks to locate thrust washers, eventually the machinists found some in Scotland somewhere.

It's certainly a good engine to rebuild if you want an educational experience, needless to say that Perkins is still open at Peterborough, the Standard engine factory is just down the road to me and is now a supermarket.....

One other comment, when I first rebuilt it it started OK but after 50 Hours of road work was becoming hard work. I had been running on 15W40 Multifleet which I use on modern engines. I pulled the head off, deglazed the bores and refilled with HD30 oil, which is quite thick and has little additive. I don't know what's on the clock now but it still starts very well.

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Ali, fae Crieff.

04-13-2004 10:15:09




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 Re: Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to sibby(Aus), 04-12-2004 17:03:08  
Sibby, I take it from what you're saying you think it's worth persivering with getting the thing to turn, but what about the rust on the liners?



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sibby(Aus)

04-13-2004 16:17:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to Ali, fae Crieff., 04-13-2004 10:15:09  
Ali, if rust is that bad you may be better off removing engine and replacing liners, also may be better to change crankshaft rod and main bearings, rings and check piston condition. big job and wonderful learning experience for you.good luck and cheers for now!!



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sibby(Aus)

04-10-2004 15:28:20




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 Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to Ali, fae Crieff., 04-10-2004 14:37:33  
Ali, pour some auto trans fluid into engine cylinders and let soak. later get a piece of wood that fits down cylinder and hit with reasonable hammer, alternatefrom no. 1 cyl to no. 2 cyl then no. 4 cyl and no.3 cyl until they start to move and let it keep soaking inbetween. hydraulics are probably as described by you affected by condensation on ram etc. flush out rear end and fill with new oil and see. Good Luck!!!!! !!

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Ali, fae Crieff.

04-11-2004 00:54:14




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 Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to sibby(Aus), 04-10-2004 15:28:20  
Sibby, thanks for the reply, but we've tried soaking the clyinders and have managed to turn the crank a bit but my concern now is if I force it might the rust on the liner be too much and brake a ring or two? or if they get by the rust will compression be a problem? but I think I can get new pistons and liners for about £200 so If the back end looks not so serious I think thats the route we'll go.Having read another piece on the web concerning the htdraulics, might the control valve be the problem? and if so can it also "free" up with use.
Cheers Ali.

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sibby(Aus)

04-11-2004 05:48:37




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 Re: Re: Re: FE 35 with 23c 4 cly. diesel. in reply to Ali, fae Crieff., 04-11-2004 00:54:14  
Ali, i would get engine turning over first, start it even if you have to use starting fluid to assist, then try hydraulics etc last. if you are undecided on keeping it, why spend big money on engine if rest of tractor will cost more than its worth, can you see what i mean? cheers!!!



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