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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Alternator not Charging

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Andy in NC

02-24-2006 18:35:48




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I am changing my TO-35 from Generator to a 10-SI Alternator. I got a new one and put it on my bench. Since it's a 1 wire deal I put my meter on 12vdc and put the + lead on the hot and the - on the ground terminal that they put on the case so you can make sure it is grounded good. I spun the pulley with my drill and it started charging. I stopped and tried it again to see what rpm it started charging since the shop put a self exciter in it. Now it doesn't show any charge at all. I thought maybe it need a battery in the loop so I put my battery on it and had the meter on the battery. Started the drill again and still got nothing !! Any ideas ? The shop told me it would charge in either direction. It was working for about 30 seconds and now dead. Thanks, Andy

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Murray E

02-25-2006 07:54:18




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 18:35:48  
Just a question to Bob. What type of alternator is that shown in the picture you posted for reference? cheers. Murray
Note: (Don"t have a problem today, might tomorrow)for future reference.



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Bob

02-25-2006 21:26:00




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Murray E, 02-25-2006 07:54:18  
It's a Delco 10SI.

The link below gives some common interchange numbers. Click on the link, and read down a ways.



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Andy in NC

02-24-2006 20:21:36




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 18:35:48  
Yes Diesel. Just wanted to kill everything when not in use so no batt drain possible. So what you are saying is just hook both lugs under the plug to the output term and then the diode and over to the batt +. Just make sure to kill the batt switch after engine is off ?? I'm not sure where the shop put the self exciter. I don't know much about it or what it looks like. Would it be plugged into those 2 lugs? If not, would I need to find and disconnect to use your system ? Maybe I should call you....Let me know.. I got free cell on weekends. Thanks, Andy

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Bob

02-25-2006 21:30:49




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 20:21:36  
The terminals under your rubber plug are the voltage regulator terminals.

Some "self-exciting" alternators are made by simply installing a "self-exciting" regulator, and some self-exciting changeovers include some diodes, installed internally in the alternator.

By using the simple harness I have shown, a salvaged "junkyard alternator" can be used, as well as a stock replacement alternator for a Gm vehicle of the 80's era.

The "self-exciting" alternators in the size range shown here were never produced by GM.

They are aftermarket outfits.

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=CityBoy=

02-25-2006 06:39:14




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 Re: Diode hint in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 20:21:36  
My MF35 has an alternator with an inline diode added. Had a problem with the diode crumbling to pieces due to vibration. Fixed the problem by tightly taping several toothpicks around the diode to keep the wires from flexing on the diode. Been good for two years now.



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Bob

02-25-2006 21:32:18




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 Re: Diode hint in reply to =CityBoy=, 02-25-2006 06:39:14  
I use 2 layers of heat shrink tubing over the diode. That stiffens things up enough so there is no problem with the diode bosy or leads breaking from vibration.



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Bob

02-24-2006 19:05:40




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 18:35:48  
It's never a good idea to run a self-exciting alternator without a battery, or to connect or disconnect a battery on an alternator charging system while it's charging.

Why not use a standard alternator, and this simple harness to connect it up? Probably cheaper, no special alternator or regulator needed, and it will charge from idle on up.

Third Party Image

The diode is a 1N5008. The large output stud is connected to the ammeter or battery, just as you would with a "one-wire" alternator.

The red wire from the diode needs to be connected to a voltage source that shuts off with the engine, and you're done!

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J. Schwiebert

02-25-2006 03:59:53




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Bob, 02-24-2006 19:05:40  
I agree with you 100%. My question is who's part number is the diode?



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Bob

02-25-2006 21:22:29




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to J. Schwiebert, 02-25-2006 03:59:53  
The diode number is an electronics industry standard number. Anyone selling diodes should be able to get that number, or cross it to their numbering system.

By it's "specs", it's WAY overkill for this job, but not expensive, and VERY durable.



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Andy in NC

02-24-2006 19:44:38




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Bob, 02-24-2006 19:05:40  
Bob, on the one you show the hot post is going up to the plug with 2 wires. Mine has a rubber plug where that is and when I pulled it to look at it there are just 2 spade lugs in there. On yours does the plug connect the 2 ? I have a master disconnect on the tractor that kills the ground from the battery. Would your setup work if I hooked up that wire you show with the diode inline to the hot side of my battery ? It would only be hot when I turned on the master switch. I would then only have 1 wire going from alt to batt. It would just have the diode inline. Thanks, Andy

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Bob

02-24-2006 20:05:16




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 Re: Alternator not Charging in reply to Andy in NC, 02-24-2006 19:44:38  
The "one-wire" alternators have the rubber plug over the regulator terminals.

On the "as-original" 3-wire units, the two flat regulator terminals connect separately to the 2 wires in the white plug in my photo.

Is your TO-35 a diesel? That would explain what you are doing with the battery disconnect switch.

You could do it that way, so long as the tractor is shut down before the battery disconnect is opened.

You could connect the diode lead to the big output stud, along with the other "voltage sense" wire that is already there, in my photo, as long as the battery is always disconnected.

On diesels, some folks connect the diode lead as you are suggesting, and add a two-terminal oil pressure switch that closes at about 4 PSI in the lead with the diode.

Then, when the engine is shut down, the oil pressure switch opens, and cuts the "excite" voltage to the alternator's #1 terminal, so no battery disconnect switch is required.

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