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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping

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Daniel B

03-03-2007 21:44:57




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I was running a log splitter for a few hours on the 135 that I’ve had now for a week, and noticed hydraulic oil dripping from the back of the diverter valve; the small disk had also slid back. So I parked her in the workshop unbolted the valve (2 way, lift and 2 aux), but it wouldn’t slide of the pipe that sticks up out of the casing. So I twisted it (probably foolishly) to one side, put some sealant around the cover and tapped it back in, then put some sealant around the valve, then bolted it back down.

I had something else to do, so I came back to it some hours later and to my horror the tractor now has no hydraulics, the lift arms won’t lift and there is no flow out to the external hydraulics either. So it’s possible I damaged something when I took the valve of, or some sealant got into pump. The position control lever seems ok, but I now noticed that when you put it into constant pumping and give the lever a gentle push towards low pressure, it slides all the way to the bottom without any effort.

I’ve taken the plates off both sides, the dipstick side seems ok, I can see just the one roller to the right of a single control rod (appears normal); the parts seem to move as you’d expect as the position control lever is pushed. Looking in the inspection hole there’s very little action until you get close to the constant pumping position, as you push it into constant pumping, you see the piston to the right slide up.

Although the high/low pressure sliding lever doesn’t look right to me, the one attached to the inspection cover. It seems to make contact with a small ram, the ram slides up and down, it has a bolt sticking out of it that seems to fit into in to a grove, it looks as though it’s missing something though. As you slide the lever the movement seems very small, but the ram has lots of travel if you push it down by hand.

The P.T.O side I un-screwed the filter, that was very clogged so I gave that a clean. I don’t yet have a manual and I’m really tempted to take the hydraulic pump apart to see if there are any obvious causes in there, is that wise without a manual? Any tips?

Anyone have any ideas, as to a possible remedy?

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cloone

03-13-2007 09:54:07




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-03-2007 21:44:57  
Pretty good stuff there lads.Lots of experience.Similar problem to above
135 with front loader and bale spike behind.
If you raise the front loader and change over the diverter valve the front loader stays up. Great.
If you do the same with the back loader and lock it up the bale will come back down over night.
Where have I the problem.
No obvious oil leaks externally
Is there a seal or an O ring gone internally

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Daniel B

03-04-2007 13:05:00




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-03-2007 21:44:57  
third party image

Thank you very much for your time in responding, much appreciated. Just for information the tractors a 1970 135 with the perkins 3 cylinder diesel, she’s done 4073 hrs.

So I put it all back together, the oil seemed in good shape so I tipped that back in (might change it one day). You were quite correct the valve, with a little nip from a pry bar slides of the stack pipe without any problem, not sure why it was so stuck on the first time I took it off. The pipe O ring seems in reasonable shape, but the back-up washer, well I didn’t see one of those (it might have been there, but it’s not now).

The stack pipe, you can grip the end with ‘long nose pliers’ pull it up, maybe an inch until it hits something, I’d assume that’s the PC (Pressure Control?) feed that stops it pulling right out. You can twist that pipe maybe 20 degrees left to right and it’s takes a little jiggling to get it to seat back down properly, but once it’s in it’s drops right down no problems.

Being a diesel you leave the stop out, I moved the position control lever to transport, then cranked her over, but no oil was coming from pipe. So I started her up, expecting oil to hit the cab roof, but nothing. I’ve played with all the levers, draft control, position control and the pressure selector, but nothing. It’s as though the pumps just asleep.

Having tapped the diverter valve while it was still attached to the stack pipe, I have a sinking feeling I’ve damaged something. If the PC is attached to the stack pipe, could I have broken something on the PC feed, might a damaged PC feed cause the pump to malfunction?

I really can’t think what else it might be. From when it was working fine till it stopped, the only thing I fiddled with was the diverter valve and the stack pipe it was connected to. That 2BA socket, I must get one of those, I have a weak spot for tools. So the opportunity to purchase yet more, is one that I just can’t turn down. I’m just not 100% sure where this plug hole is located to reset the response control, I’ve still got to get the tools none the less :-)

Mike,, I think that might have been my trouble to start with. The log splitter sit on the three point linkage, you raise it up to working height then switch the oil flow over to the log splitter and put it into constant pumping. After 20 minutes or so you find the lift arms have lowered slightly, so rather than switch the constant pumping off, then change the diverter valve back to the lift arms I was just flicking the diverter valve quickly across then back again, which is probably what started the leak in the valve in the first place (bloody amateurs).

Might just try adding a picture of her

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richard in nz

03-05-2007 00:09:49




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-04-2007 13:05:00  
The cabs were locally made, as were a lot of the Ferguson implements that you will see in N.Z. Where are you, the ground looks flat, are you here on the Canterbury plains? You may have damaged a stack pipe "O" ring, I think Bare-co do them, thier head office is in Hornby, Christchurch, with dealers all over N.Z.



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Daniel B

03-05-2007 23:33:18




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to richard in nz, 03-05-2007 00:09:49  
I’m in Southland just 5 minutes north of Winton. That Bare-co web site"s very handy, I’d very much like to restore this tractor, including the cab, back to new condition. I can see a lot of money being spent in Bare-co’s direction. I’ve had a few parts already and the prices seem very reasonable, I’ll have to replace the padded seat sometime soon (the bumps are killers), I couldn’t make it myself for the price they were asking.

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DavidP, South Wales

03-04-2007 15:08:00




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-04-2007 13:05:00  
Hello again Daniel,
Super photo of the tractor. Is it a UK built one, looking at the lamps on the wings?
To find the response plug you will need to remove the plate held on with 4 screws. The plug is underneath. It is unlikely that flicking the divertor on and off would have caused this leak unless it was waiting to happen. It is normal for the linkage to lower a little when the divertor is set to 'external'. When switched to 'internal' the linkage tells the pump to supply oil to rise it to the set position.
Are you sure that the stackpipe is engaged at the pump? When you fit the divertor valve the faces must be EXACTLY parallel. If not either the stackpipe is bent or not engaged. Is the operating lever on the pump following all commands from the quadrant levers? If the vertical lever from above goes loose at any time the control valve in the pump may be sticking.
Is it possible that the tractor has been left in Constant Pumping with the system closed. If the oil overheats it is possible for the valve to overheat and stick. If that appears to be OK run the engine up to a speed where the thrown oil remains inside the casing. With a small mirror and torch you should be able to look forward 6 inches or so to see if there is a fountain of oil coming from the pump. That suggests that the stackpipe is not fitted or is leaking. Also check your PTO operation by holding a piece of wood against it as if trying to stop it. Stand as far back as you can whilst doing this.
Please come back after you have had a look at these.
Cheers
DavidP

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Daniel B

03-04-2007 23:04:30




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-04-2007 15:08:00  
third party image

I think the problem is the stack pipe not engaging into the pump properly, I obviously bent the pipe when I was trying to fix the leak in the diverter valve.

I couldn’t see much with the mirror, so I put the torch over the two holes to the left of the stack pipe; you can then look into the other holes and just make out a flow of oil, as soon as you rev the engine, the flow turns into fountain spitting oil up through the holes. I found if you pull the stack pipe up as far as it will go (see photos), and give it a few revs oil will flow from the top of the stack pipe. I guess this is a good sign, so it must be the stack pipe not engaging. You can also hear the oil hissing from the pipe in the sump. Although doing this I was risking injecting hydraulic oil into my ear, but I guess you’ve got to take a few risks in life :)

The P.T.O seems fine; I’d loose a limb trying to stop that :-) I’ve tried everything to get the stack pipe seated into the pump but to no avail, in fact I think I’ve probably bent it even more trying to get it seated, but it’s all fun, I guess. Does this now mean I will have no option but to remove the lift cover? If I do this will that give me access to the stack pipe and allow me to straighten it?

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Daniel B

03-04-2007 23:12:21




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-04-2007 23:04:30  
third party image

The first photo you can see the stack pipe pushed down as far as it will go, it’s now obvious to me it’s not seated correctly, it sits to one side (and no oil comes out).

I’m British born but about ten years ago I moved to New Zealand, which is where I reside currently. The tractor has ‘Made In England’ stamped all over it, I’m not sure why it has lights on the guards (second photo), maybe if you wanted to drive on the road NZ had some laws or something that only allowed you to do so with rear tail lights??? The laws were relaxed recently, meaning you’re no longer required to register your tractor for the road, before driving on it. Also when I arrived all cars were required to have a rear stop light in the back window, else you weren’t permitted to drive on the road. Maybe something to do with that. The lights have two bolts holding them onto the guards, with a third for the electrical cable.

I quite like the weather cab on this one (very cute), I haven’t seen those on the 135 before, in England the farm I was working on had two 135’s, one with a full cab, with plastic windows at the rear and full metal glassed doors. The other was just a yard tractor, no cab. Both were extremely reliable, so when the opportunity arose to purchase a small odd jobs tractor it had to be the 135. I’ve clocked up a few thousand hours in my youth, on these machines.

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DavidP, South Wales

03-05-2007 00:20:23




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-04-2007 23:12:21  
Hi Daniel,
By your photo the stackpipe looks to be too low. It should protrude by about 1/2" when in place. Looks like we have cracked it. Please let me know how it turns out.
DavidP



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mike a. tenn.

03-05-2007 03:26:34




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-05-2007 00:20:23  
UH OH! replacing the standpipe....i haven't had the joy...yet, so i can't help you out there. sorry.

-mike



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Daniel B

03-05-2007 23:36:49




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to mike a. tenn., 03-05-2007 03:26:34  
Ok so I thought about it for a moment, the stack pipes very close to the in dip stick inspection port. So I open up the port (drained oil), take the step off, for easy access and shine a torch across to the pipe while looking through the bolt hole at the top. You can see clearly that the pipe is very bent, as you push down it just slides over the side, missing the hole in the pump assembly completely.

So I bend the pipe back as much as I can, then line it up with a screw driver while looking down through the bolt hole, then tap the top with the handle of another screw driver and hay presto it pops in. I’ve just got to remember now that if I remove the diverter valve, I’ve got to be careful not to pull the pipe out too far.

She’s all working now and splitting logs again, thanks for the help.

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DavidP, South Wales

03-06-2007 02:10:21




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-05-2007 23:36:49  
Hi, great news, our accounts are in the post!!!!

Cheers from South Wales



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DavidP, South Wales

03-04-2007 03:14:01




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to Daniel B, 03-03-2007 21:44:57  
Hello Daniel,
You are posing a lot of questions there, I will try and answer most of them.
There should be nothing more than the compression of the O ring holding the valve on the stackpipe. Although you can disconnect the pipe from the pump you will not be able to remove it due the the feed pipe for PC branched off it(Assuming that you have Pressure Control fitted). In 35 years I have never failed to remove a cap or valve from the pipe. There is an O ring which fits between the valve and top of the cover. Possibly this had blown and was causing your oil leak. By sealing around the outside of the valve you may have cured the leak but created in 'internal' leak. I think it unlikely that you have damaged the stackpipe or PC feed. The next step has to be to remove the valve bolts and raise the valve as far as you can without force. You should be able to hold the pipe with a pair of grips or pliers while you ease the valve off.
With the cap off look for the O ring and condition of the pipe O ring and back-up washer.
Insert the pipe back into the pump and tap it home WITH THE HANDLE OF A HAMMER. With the levers set to raise of pump turn the engine over briefly. You should have a good flow of oil from the pipe.
If that is OK it suggests everything below is good.
Check for any ovality in the end of the pipe.
The easy movement of the Position lever may be nothing more than the damper spring on the lever needs tightening a little. Perhaps it has got some oil on it and is now lubricated.

I do not think that there is anything missing from the Response Dashpot. The piston and screw are correct. The cranked rod on the Response lever makes contact with the top of the piston. Movement is minimal. The operation of the Response Control is self priming and is not connected to the system in any way. To reset this you will need a 2BA socket that will pass through the plug hole in the cover. Slacken the screw and fully compress the piston and nip up. Replace the cover and move the lever to approx 3/8" from the 'slow' end of the quadrant. Locate the screw and slacken, then lock up. If the dashpot is OK it should now work.
As you will be aware inorder to remove the pump you will need to remove the lift cover. This is a job that should NOT be undertaken until you at least have a manual. There are also special tools to do the job properly.
Unless you suspect the pump it is perhaps better left alone for the moment.
If you need any more help I would be happy to talk you through it.
Regards
DavidP,South Wales

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mike a. tenn.

03-04-2007 05:50:47




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-04-2007 03:14:01  
daniel...while everythig david told you is correct, i suspect your problem to be a simple o-ring damage problem. the original "leak" you described around the diverter valve was most likely caused by a partially blown o-ring. there are four of them in your diverter (isolator) valve. one on the hydraulic standpipe, one in each of the ports. these are the only things that seal your isolator valve. there is no need for a gasket under it or sealant to be used.

your damaged o-ring was most likely causing the leak. when you twisted the valve you probably made it worse which caused the internal leak david described. you need to remove the isolator valve by removing the four bolts, and while twisting and lifting the valve, remove it completely. it will come all the way off. next check the o-ring on the standpipe to make sure it's ok. then check the other three port o-rings on the isolator valve. you should probably replpace them all since you have your valve off anyway. if one went bad the others may be following suit.

after o-ring replacement, check to make sure your standpipe is seated correctly in the traqctor's hydr. pump by first removing the coil wire (if yours is a gas engine) so your tractor won't start, and with the control lever in constant pump, turn the engine over a few times. if you have oil pumping up thru your standpipe, it is seated corerctly. i use vaseline to "stick" my o-rings in the port holes to make sure they stay in place when replacing the isolator valve. line the valve up over the standpipe and gently work it back on, then replace the bolts. my "guess" is that this will solve your problem.

by the way...top o' the mornin' to you david!! cool over here this morning (20's) but more warm weather on the way later this week.

-mike

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mike a. tenn.

03-04-2007 06:24:04




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 Re: MF 135 hydraulic pump not pumping, one more th in reply to mike a. tenn., 03-04-2007 05:50:47  
daniel...one thing i think i should mention is that when you change positions of the lever on your isolator valve, make sure you are not in constant puming mode as this can cause damage to your o-rings and internal working parts.

-mike



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