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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ebay MF 165

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Ali fae Crieff

05-26-2007 15:53:40




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This is a Query for DavidP, You recently commented on an Ebay listing for an MF 165, where you suggested, quite rightly that the engine was a Perkins AD4.203, but you suggested that the rear end was from a later tractor, why do you think this? Cheers, "puzzled" Ali.




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Don-Wi

05-26-2007 23:20:48




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to Ali fae Crieff, 05-26-2007 15:53:40  
There were differences in the rear enbds, the later ones are supposed to have a square axel housing if i remember correctly, and the older ones have a round axel housing. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm prety sure that's the way it goes.

Donovan from Wisconsin



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DavidP, South Wales

05-27-2007 01:41:50




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to Don-Wi, 05-26-2007 23:20:48  
Hello Ali and Donovan,
It would appear that the tractor in question has a 1970 or later back end signified as ytou say by the square axle and in the UK at least Scirroco safety frame with either flexible or rigid cladding.
In 32 years of MF experience I have never seen a later tractor with an earlier engine.
The MF 158 Fruit tractor circa 1980's is essentially a 165 back end but has the AD4.203 engine so this suggests that the clutch housing and engine block are compatible.
For MF to fit an older engine seems like a backward step. My feeling is that something major happened to the original AD4.212 engine and the 203 was available as a cheaper replacement.
I would very much like to have a chance to look at this tractor.
Regards
DavidP, South Wales

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Bob N.Y.

05-27-2007 06:19:39




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 05-27-2007 01:41:50  
I don't know where the tractor in question is located. The Perkins AD4-203 engine was used in all of the U.S. 165 diesels, and the first 255 diesels. The 211 diesel was not used here.



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DavidP, South Wales

05-27-2007 09:36:15




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to Bob N.Y., 05-27-2007 06:19:39  
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your input. Yes, I know that the 203 engine was used widely in North America in the early 165's.
Did the 165's upgrade to the square axle and heavier backend as they did in the UK around 1970.
The Scirroco safety frame was fitted in the UK but I have not seen any pictures of it on North American tractors. The shape of the NA fenders would prevent the frame fitting but that could be got round. Was the AD4.212 fitted from around 1968 and 'wet' brakes from around 1970 as they were in the UK?
DavidP

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Bob N.Y.

05-27-2007 16:29:59




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 05-27-2007 09:36:15  
To the best of my knowlege, the AD4-211 was never used in this country. The late 165s did have the square axles and I believe they had wet brakes. The gas version of the 211 was used in the late 165s.



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mf 148

05-27-2007 14:15:41




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 05-27-2007 09:36:15  
hi david,
i have been having a closer look at the tractor.it hasn't got the square axle with wet brakes.its got the dry type.,and it still has the early top link bracket and early tractors would have 2 piece back wheel centers.
but it has the later type clutch pedal with slot in it.i wonder if it could be a later multi power gearbox with safety frame fittings fitted to a early 203 engined tractor.
hope this helps to confuse you even more!!

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DavidP, South Wales

05-28-2007 00:34:36




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 Re: Ebay MF 165 in reply to mf 148 , 05-27-2007 14:15:41  
Hello,
Well spotted that man!
That suggestion certainly opens a new can of nuts and bolts. Wheel centres are of course easily changes but having the old type lift cover is not so easy. It also has the later type swinging drawbar fitted but without autohitch linkage. That would certainly explain everything but it would have been an expensive exercise.
DavidP



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