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Hydraulic not working

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Christiana

03-21-2008 06:06:41

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Hi
My hydraulic is not responding on the lever controls. My front loader is in top position and wont go down no mather what i do with the lever controls.

The oil seemes quite hot, and there is a new sound probably from the pump. Almost like a bird singing :-)
It disappears when the clutch is all the way down.
Where do i start from here?

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Gerald J.

03-22-2008 17:10:10

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

Like Dave has hinted, it acts like one of the hose couplings has come loose. Happened to me regularly on other tractors when I ran double acting cylinders to lift implements. When the lift hose coupling pops out and you try to force the load down you build up lots of pressure on the loader hydraulics but because that return line is closed when the coupler comes loose the load won't come down. Then its a real hard job to reconnect the coupling under pressure.

If the three point works fine, its another sign its not the tractor controls, but the loader hose.

Gerald J.

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Christiana

03-22-2008 09:35:12

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to 51Pony, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

I tried to upload a photo.

Is it possible to see what is wrong? :)
Christian, Norway[/img]

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Christiana

03-21-2008 13:49:34

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

dobble posting

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Christiana

03-21-2008 13:49:34

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

dobble posting

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Christiana

03-21-2008 13:49:34

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

dobble posting

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Christiana

03-21-2008 13:04:41

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

Thanks for responding!
The 3-pt is going all the way up and down, but there is something strange with the level control.
It is not working as before. Will not raise and go down in the positions of the lever as before. Only by using the pressure area from about the middle and forward on the lever nearest the body of the tractor.
Dave: I have checked the level and filled it up only a while ago.

Christian, Norway

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DavidP, South Wales

03-21-2008 07:53:36

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 06:06:41

Hi,
Do you operate your loader from the 3-pt quadrant or do you have a seperate valve block?
If you have a seperate block, check your supply and return hoses for being connected correctly.
If you have quick-release couplings make sure that they are fully engaged.
If you are operating the loader from the quadrant it sounds like the relief valve is blowing and when you press the clutch fully you are stopping the pump.
Is there linkage between the quadrant (if you have a cab fitted) and the hydraulic cover that might have come undone?
If all the above are OK then it suggests that the control valve in the pump may be stuck.
Please come back with what you find and model and age of the tractor.
DavidP, South Wales

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Christiana

03-21-2008 08:11:47

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-21-2008 07:53:36

Thanks for reply :-)
Forgot to say it is a MF 135 from 1969.
I use the 2 handles on the right side to lift the loader or 3-point. I also have a 3-way valve to choose between front loader, 3-point and hydraulic outlet.

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Christiana

03-21-2008 12:08:11

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 08:11:47

I was out trying to get some snow away, and discovered that i was able to lift the 3-point by using the pressure lever. Hmm.... strange. It was not working as before. it only got down by pulling the lever all the way forward ( less pressure) The front loader is still stucked in upper position. I can feel there is pressure in the system, cause the handle that choose between loader, 3-point and outlet is hard to move. On the 3 point, ihave a heavy snow-blower. I was able to use it now, since i could rise it up and down. But i do need the loader as well, so i hope we can figure out whats wrong!

Christian, Norway

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DavidP, South Wales

03-21-2008 12:02:25

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 08:11:47

Hi,
Does the 3-pt work correctly? If the 3-pt will not go down either that points to the control valve stuck as a starting point.
Please let us know.
DavidP, South Wales

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135 Fan

03-21-2008 11:27:58

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 08:11:47

Your oil level could be low. When the loader is all the way up uses the most oil. It should come down though. I'd make sure the 3 way valve was in the correct position. If the pump makes a noise, don't run it very much. Low oil would make the pump noisy and is bad for it. Maybe an oil line came off internally? Dave

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Christiana

03-21-2008 13:49:34

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to 135 Fan, 03-21-2008 11:27:58

Thanks for responding! The 3-pt is going all the way up and down, but there is something strange with the level control. It is not working as before. Will not raise and go down in the positions of the lever as before. Only by using the pressure area from about the middle and forward on the lever nearest the body of the tractor. Dave: I have checked the level and filled it up only a while ago.

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DavidP, South Wales

03-21-2008 14:35:42

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 13:49:34

Hi again,
OK I think we are making a little progress. If I understand what is happening I think the problem may be in the linkage inside the hydraulic cover. There is a profiled lever which runs against rollers. When wear occurs the lever can slip off the roller and jam.
I would suggest that you drain the oil to the level of the bottom bolt on the RH round side cover and remove that cover. Inside you will see the lever at the bottom which operates the pump valve. Coming from the top is the lever which operates the pump lever when you move the quadrant controls. The pump lever should be approximately vertical for 'neutral', leaning forward for 'lowering' and rearwards to raise the system. With 3-pt selected operate the quadrant levers and the pump lever should move accordingly. Select your loader position and lower as you would normally do on the quad levers.
I suspect that the pump lever will not move forward as it should do. Move the pump lever forward very slowly by hand and the loader should come down. Make sure that no-one is underneath. When you release the lever the loader will probably go up again.
Let us know what you find.
DavidP

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Christiana

03-21-2008 14:41:48

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-21-2008 14:35:42

Thanks again :-)
I will try out what you suggest, and let you know what comes out of that.

Christian, Norway.

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Christiana

03-21-2008 14:47:08

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 14:41:48

By the way.... Do you mean the cover on the left side? Where i turn on the PTO? or is it the cover with the 2 handles for moving loader?

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DavidP, South Wales

03-21-2008 16:12:12

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiana, 03-21-2008 14:47:08

Hi,
Its the cover with the dipstick in it on the right hand side as you sit in the seat.
David

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christiana

03-22-2008 08:18:43

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-21-2008 16:12:12

DavidP: I took some pictures and seems as you are right about the roller. Dont really know how to put it back in place. Is there a way to send you pictures?

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DavidP, South Wales

03-22-2008 13:09:06

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-22-2008 08:18:43

Hello Christian,
I have seen your photo on the 'Stuck and Troubled'
That roller is not the one that I was referring to. That one is in the hydraulic cover.
However the problem that you have will cause all sorts of problems.
The pump lever pivot bracket is retained by two methods. One is a small pin with a groove at the end for a special circlip. The other is for a 'push-in' spring pin. You may be lucky and find any of the parts on top of the rear of the pump.
Normally the bits find their way to the underside of the pump and cannot be removed without removing the pump. The pump lever can be re-attached through the side cover but it is a difficult job.
Cheers
David

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DavidP, South Wales

03-22-2008 12:55:03

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-22-2008 08:18:43

OK, if you send an e-mail instead of the reply it should get to me.
David

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christiana

03-22-2008 13:41:11

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-22-2008 12:55:03

I tried but i got a message that i have problem with posting parametres.....

So i have quite a job in front of me i guess....

Do i need to remove the "top cover" to reach the right parts?

Thanks so far for all your help.

Christian

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DavidP, South Wales

03-23-2008 06:45:10

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-22-2008 13:41:11

Hello,
Yes it will be necessary to remove the cover to repair the linkage roller mechanism. But from your photo that is enough to give you the problems. This can be repaired through the side cover. Do not lift the pump lever as you risk losing the very small rollers and pin at the end of the control valve.
David

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christiana

03-23-2008 07:20:14

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-23-2008 06:45:10

Hello and thanks again!
I must admit that i am unsure how i solve this...
Some words are hard to translate into norwegian, but most of all, i really dont know which parts are missing, and how it is appose to look like when it is ensambled. Tricky :-)
Is there a place where i can find picture or drawing of the area?
I will now go out looking for missing parts in the bottom, hoping to see any solutions

Cheers
Christian, Norway

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christiana

03-24-2008 12:00:21

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-23-2008 07:20:14

Today i have removed the top cover, and the problem seems to be the lever control valve. The "pin and Roller-kit" is disapered, and i have to replace it. Seems to be quite difficult to get the small parts in place without loosing them. Anyone who has tried?
I have the Mark 1 pump.
Order the parts tomorrow, hope to recive them soon.

Cheers :-)
Christian, Norway

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DavidP, South Wales

03-24-2008 15:04:40

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-24-2008 12:00:21

Hello,
Glad to see that 'we' are making progress.
You may have been able to remove the cover with the pump lever roller in place but you MUST remove it before you refit the cover.
My UK parts book does not show the alternative type of fastening for the pump lever.
If I understand correctly you are having difficulty in understanding the names for the parts. Here are the part numbers (may have been updated since my book was printed) and the French and German equivalents. Hope it may help.
Pump pivot pin 1861 510 M1 Goupille, Bolzen
Pump pivot circlip 1861 511 M1 Circlip, Schelle

Control valve rollers (2) 897 599 M1 Rouleau, Rolle
Control valve roller pin 897 504 M1 Goupille, Bolzen

Cheers
David

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christiana

03-27-2008 11:34:17

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-24-2008 15:04:40

Thanks!
Seems like i recieved the right parts today, and its time to replace rollers and pin. Must be the same parts you refer to.
Hope i can get it in position without loosing them down there.... One of the rollers is already fastened to the pin. the other one is separate. Believe i have to remove the back cover from the pump to free the part i connect the roller to??

Christian, Norway

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christiana

03-29-2008 07:34:30

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-27-2008 11:34:17

Hi!
Here we are again...
Tried to put all parts together, but it seems to be another problem. And it makes sense that caused the rollers and pin to fall apart in the first place....
As you see in the picture the pin going into the pump is far to much out, nothing is holding it in place. Cant pull it all the way out, it stops in the end. But this makes the roller and pin jump off and i have to fix it. Do i have to replace the entire valve?
I have tried to take out the pump but is it possible without taking the tractorbody apart?

Thanks for helping me out!

Christian

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DavidP, South Wales

03-29-2008 11:10:29

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-29-2008 07:34:30

Hello Christian,
I have not had the opportunity to get back to see if you had put up any further postings.
I can see from your photos that the control valve is very much too far out from the plate on the rear of the pump. When the pump lever is removed the rollers should be against the plate. This happens due to a long fine spring at the front of the control valve. Are you able to move the control valve rod in and out? If so you have lost the spring pressure on it there is a small pin and circlip at the front of it which may have been disconnected for some reason.
If you are unable to push the control valve in it suggests that the control valve has seized in the precision ground washers that it slides in. This can be caused by water forming rust or if the oil has overheated.
If you are unable to free it and have it return under spring pressure then it will be necessary to remove the pump. Does your tractor have Multi-Power or IPTO? If it does it will be necessary to split the tractor between the rear of the gearbox and centre housing in order to remove the auxillary pump first.
If not, removal is straight-forward once the hydraulic cover is removed.
Please come back on my direct e-mail address.
Cheers
David

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christiana

03-29-2008 11:29:07

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-29-2008 11:10:29

Hello David!
Thanks again!
I still have problem sending you mail, so i have to continue posting here :-)

There is no problem sliding the pin in and out, so it has to be the spring you are refering to.

I will try to take the pump out for easier access, but wasnt able to, still i dont have the multipower, only one pump.
I put in another picture, maybe you are able to guide me by looking at the photo?

Ihave removed the two bolts holding the pump "from outside"
The upper gear "thing" was easy to remove by taking off the nail going thru it, but the pump is still hanging in the lower "thing" going thru the pump..... ( dont know the word for it :-)) Cheers
Christian

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DavidP, South Wales

03-29-2008 12:08:09

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-29-2008 11:29:07

Hello again,
OK, You have removed the main drive shaft and shear tube. There should have been a split pin through the tube. For the moment replace the dowel pins going into the pump from the outside.
Before you can remove the pump it is necessary to remove the PTO shaft. Remove the check chain brackets and the plate around the shaft bearing hub. I have made a slide hammer to pull the shaft out. It is only held by an O ring but it can be difficult to remove. An easy way is to fit an implement drive shaft onto the tractor shaft (if you have a loose end coupling...better still) Arrange a pry bar and blocks to give you a force in the direction of removal of the PTO shaft.
With the shaft removed, remove the dowels. Taking a firm grip with your hand around the pump shaft, move it to the rear to disengage the drive collar on the front. Carefully lift the pump upwards from the rear and withdraw through the casing. I always turn the pump upside down and rest it on the top of the casing. Turn the pump by hand and drain the oil back into the casing.
If you look at the front of the control valve there should be a large domed nut there. Remove the nut and you will probably find the problem. If the pin and wire circlip are intact you will need to strip the pump. Identify the position of the pistons relative to the front and rear bodies of the pump. The look the same but are different if fitted the wrong way round. Disconnect the oscillator pin and remove the front body.You can now remove the control valve if its free. If you have to remove the valve from the tube, be careful.
Do you understand the English term "Jack in the box"? If you are not VERY careful the spring can 'fly' out and cause possible injury. If the valve is seized in the rear body, remove the back plate and washers. Put them on a screwdriver or similar so that you know the order.
When you have it stripped you should see the problem. The washers MUST be a precision but free fit. If they are loose in any way the control valve must be replaced.
Cheers
David

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christiana

03-29-2008 12:22:57

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 03-29-2008 12:08:09

Thank you!
Now i have some work to do tomorrow!

Cheers
Christian

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Christiane

04-07-2008 12:29:59

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to christiana, 03-29-2008 12:22:57

Hi!
Well, my tractor is "on the road again"
The control valve had separated, and replaced it with a kind of clips that was fallen of.

It is now working quite ok, but i have a feeling that something is not optimized some way.
The valve was not moving very easy in and out, and maybe that is why it has been pulled apart??

The response of the 3-point is good and quite precise, but the front loader is responding slowly. If i pull the handle all the way up, it starts rising, but if i then push the handle all the way forward again, it takes 2-3 seconds before it stops and starts to go the other way.
Therefore i guess the valve is "sticky" and needs some time to move?

I will try to run it for a while till the oil is hot and see if it gets better.

But thanks so far, ill keep you up to date!

Christian

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Christiana

04-26-2008 15:08:07

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Re: Hydraulic not working in reply to Christiane, 04-07-2008 12:29:59

I have tried the hydraulic for a while now, and it seems to have loosen up a bit. Alittle different from before, but working ok.

Thanks for helping me out with this problem!

Christian

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