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Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA

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Bill

12-30-2002 20:32:44




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The way I understand it, the "FTA" actually followed the "21-32", and the serial number records seem to confirm that. If that is the case, where does the "FT" tractor fit into the mix? Its production run overlaps part of the "21-32" and the "FTA", yet in the other models the "A" series was an upgraded version of the original "T" series. For example, the KTA was an upgraded version of the KT, and the MTA was an upgraded version of the MT. Where does the oddball "FT" fit in between the "21-32" and the "FTA"? Following the previously defined logic of the other series, it should be the predecessor of the "FTA" (ie. the "21-32" without a high compression head), but the "21-32" and the "FT" have separate serial number listings and appear to have been manufactured at the same time. Can someone please clear up this confusion!!!!!

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Ken Williams

01-02-2003 22:20:17




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 Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to Bill, 12-30-2002 20:32:44  
Bill, I will try and explain this further. First, don't try and read too much into the serial number sequence of the 21-32, as it seams to lead into the FTA. This was done many times, by other manufactures, and there is usually no significance. The early 21-32 (FT's), shared the same engine, and had only a two speed transmission. These tractors were tested at Neb. under test number 127, in Oct. 1926. Next the 21-32 (FT), was tested at Neb. with test number 151, in Oct. 1928. It had a 3 speed transmission. It can be assummed that the first production run of 21-32's (FT), just had the two speed transmission. From around Oct. 1928 forward, the21-328 (FT), now has a three speed transmission. This 3 speed transmission was carried into the production of the FTA. Also rembember that the corporate players, were now starting to get in to the future, of the new company. The original 21-32 (FT), was being manufactured by the Minnieapolis Steel and Machinery Compay. By later runs, of the 21-32 (FT), they were produced by the Minnieapolis Machinery Company. This could easily answere any puzzles about what tractors were sold with certain serial numbers, But with the introduction of the FTA, this tractor was produced by Minnieapolis Moline Power Implement Company. And now the MM FTA was produced with the MM GE engine, and the new 3 speed transmission. Also the upper radiator tank, on the earlier Twin Cities, just sported a Twin Cities logo, on the radiator tank. The later FTA's had both the MMlogo, and the Twin City logo. I'm sure there were minor improvements on these tractors also. I hope this helps you.

Happy Tractoring, Ken

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Ken Williams

12-30-2002 21:40:01




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 Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to Bill, 12-30-2002 20:32:44  
Bill, The model 21-32 and the model FT, were basically the same tractor, being equipped with MM's model FE engine. It had a bore and stroke of 4.5 X 6, and ran at 1075 rpm. The FTA came afterwards, and it was equipped with MM's model GE engine, with a bore and stroke of 4.625 X 6, and also running at 1075 rpm. I believe that this was the same engine used in the MM GT.

Happy Tractoring, Ken

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Bill

12-31-2002 15:22:48




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 Re: Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to Ken Williams, 12-30-2002 21:40:01  
Ken,

If that is the case, why were they marketed simultaneously and why did they have different serial number listings? They may have had the same engine, but there had to be some mechanical differences to justify a completely different serial number listing and the basis behind marketing them at the same time. Scan the serial number listings for all three models and you will notice that the FT was built simultaneously with the 21-32 and the FTA.

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BMG

01-01-2003 08:44:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to Bill, 12-31-2002 15:22:48  
Bill,
I don't know what serial # listing you are using but here's the info I have:

TC 21-32 1926-1928 150001-150302
TC 21-32 FT Pre 1930 150303-151796
1930 151797-154073
1931 154074-154123
1932 154124-154129
1934 154130-154275
TC 21-32 FTA 1935 154300-155381
1936 155382-156247
1937 156248-156908
1938 156909-157229
TC FT Industrial 1932 46001-46004
1934 46005-46029
TC FTA Industrial
1935 46030
1936 46031-46046
1937 46047-46074

From this info The 21-32, 21-32 FT and 21-32 FTA were not overlapping models. If this info doesn't answer your question please elaborate and I'll try and help.

Brian

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Bill

01-01-2003 11:16:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to BMG, 01-01-2003 08:44:06  
Brian,

Access the serial number references on this site and the other MM website, and you will notice separate serial number listings for the 21-32, FT, & FTA. There is no distinction in these serial number references that the list for the "FT" is actually for an "FT Industrial". I believe you are right that the list specified for the "FT" is actually for an "FT Industrial", and as I suspected there were some mechanical differences between these models to justify separate overlapping serial number listings. No information on this site or any other site specified what those differences were though. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

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BMG

01-02-2003 15:09:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between 21-32, FT, FTA in reply to Bill, 01-01-2003 11:16:47  
Bill,
I'm glad I could help. I thought maybe the Industrials could be confusing the subject so I listed them for you. I've never seen an industrial FT or FTA. I imagine there were differences like heavier wheel centers and possibly fenders or the like.

I've found the most complete and accurate serial number reference for Moline tractors is in the back of the book "Minneapolis-Moline Farm Tractors" by Peterson and Beemer. It lists the beginning and ending serial #s where most lists only have the beginning #. It breaks out all the different front end types and their serial numbers instead of lumping them all together as Us or Zs or Rs like most lists. The list for UTS is a page long in itself! It also lists several foot notes describing changes in a model over its lifetime (example: when the fenders or engine model changed or when a model switched from a magneto to a distributor or 6 to 12 volt). Even when a certain serial number was converted into something else by the factory.

I highly recommend this book for those who really want to know some details about MM serial numbers.

Brian

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