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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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U or UB

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Aberdale Farm

12-20-2007 18:27:15




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I recently bought a 1951 U with live hydraulics and power steering. The engine was stuck, but with a little work it's freed up and running strong again. Everything works but the PTO. As it turns out, the splined end of the transmission countershaft was twisted off where the PTO drive shaft slips over it.

Long story short, a salvage yard near me said it would be easier to just swap tranny cases, rather than fully disassemble to get to the countershaft (he would only charge me for the countershaft and PTO drive shaft). Sounds fair to me. He has a U and a UB. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to swap my U parts for the UB parts (and pay for the extra steering column, seat, pedals, etc.) and get a better workstation in the process.

What are your thoughts?

Dale

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Harry J. Case

12-23-2007 20:16:46




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Aberdale Farm, 12-20-2007 18:27:15  
Hey John I don't know what happened to my GB after it was traded to the Case dealer in Paris Mo. Really wish I had taken pictures. Harry



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BMG1

12-21-2007 07:17:15




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Aberdale Farm, 12-20-2007 18:27:15  
Dale,
I completed a complete disassembly and reassembly of a UB trans this summer. It was a 5 year project occupying space in the shop. I would not call it a fun job. Every gear in my case was shot. I used an early 50's parts UTU for all the gears and differential. I can tell you the late UB's used a different ring and pinion and differential from the GB series of tractors. If I remember correctly, you'll have to gut the trans case to replace that shaft as its the bottom shaft in the case.

Other things to consider. You'll lose your serial number tag with the case swap so be sure to save it. You won't know the condition of the donor transmissions until you've completed the swap so it's a risk. You may get a working PTO but a very noisy trans.

Are you considering swapping to the foot clutch too or just the high platform? Your power steering will probably need some adaptation to the UB steering column and shafts.

Bottom line. How much work are you looking to do? Easiest is swap straight U trans for yours. The next is a toss up. The labor to swap the shafts out may be a wash with all the labor to convert your UT to a UB.

Brian

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Aberdale Farm

12-22-2007 14:25:20




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 Re: U or UB in reply to BMG1, 12-21-2007 07:17:15  
Brian, If I decided to upgrade to a UB workstation/platform, I would likely convert the clutch to a foot clutch instead of a hand clutch. I would use all of the UB parts from the clutch housing back, except for my U fenders, wheels, and tires.

I guess it then begs the question, why not just restore the UB and use my U for parts?

Dale



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T,R.K.

12-24-2007 06:03:17




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Aberdale Farm, 12-22-2007 14:25:20  
Why don't you just put the U engine in the UB?



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Joe Leising

12-21-2007 10:09:48




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 Re: U or UB in reply to BMG1, 12-21-2007 07:17:15  
I guess I should have read it more carefully, because now I ma confused on which shaft is bad. If it is the front shaft with the gear swapping the entire tranny might be the best option..... ....

Joe



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Aberdale Farm

12-22-2007 14:20:02




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Joe Leising, 12-21-2007 10:09:48  
Thanks for replying, Joe. I probably wasn't that clear, but the broken part is the end of the lower countershaft in the transmission. And according to the manual, it's the last part to come out of the case. If I want a PTO, the best bet is to swap case and all, or it will be a lot of work.

Of course, if I wanted to save a lot of work, I could just make a flat back out of it. I've never used a PTO on a UTU, but it runs right above the platform between my legs. Not the best. That's why converting to a UB workstation is appealing, to get the platform above the PTO shaft.

Dale

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Joe Leising

12-21-2007 06:32:19




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Aberdale Farm, 12-20-2007 18:27:15  
If I understand you properly your PTO shaft is twisted off right at the back of the tractor where is comes out. If this is correct then it is only about a 15 minute job to swap in a good one. The PTO shaft on a Moline is a 3 piece deal. There is a short shaft in the housing bolted to the rear of the tractor. There is a short shaft with a gear at the front of the transmission, and there is a shaft in between that is splined on both ends. You can either drain the rear gear oil, jack the back end up, or park it on a hill to get the oil to run forward. Take out all the bolts (6 or 8) surrounding the housing, and pull it out. If you don"t rain the oil you will probably have to fish the intermediate shaft out of the gear lube. If you just got this tractor going again, it might be a good idea to drain and replace the gear oil anyway. After you have the old housing out just slide the new one in making sure to get all the shafts lined up. Bolt it down, fill up the rear with oil, and go to work.

Joe

I know one can be pulled that quick, because I"ve done it a tractor pull to get the weight down.

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Harry J. Case

12-20-2007 19:36:58




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Aberdale Farm, 12-20-2007 18:27:15  
Hey Dale You asked for an opinion, I would leave the U as is, it is so easy to step up on from the back and I'm one of the old timers that loved to stand up driving a tractor. Also I think I made the first MM Vista out of a GB, I made the operators platform up on top of the transmission, moved the steering,throttle etc, put the propane tank on the back mounted crossways. It was nice to be up out of the dirt that the fan would blow in your face if you were sitting down. Each design has its advantages. Harry Case, Allis, Moline nut

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Aberdale Farm

12-22-2007 14:33:00




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Harry J. Case, 12-20-2007 19:36:58  
Harry, thanks for your input. I guess I'm somewhat considering doing to my U what you did to your G, except I would leave the fuel tank in the factory position.

Of course some would think it's blasphemy to "cobble" a tractor the way I'm considering. This whole notion started because I wanted to restore the PTO to working condition. Considering that on the U the PTO is running between my legs on the platform, the safest (and cheapest)thing to do may be to leave the PTO inoperable and just restore the rest of the tractor as is.

Dale

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john graham

12-21-2007 12:05:32




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 Re: U or UB in reply to Harry J. Case, 12-20-2007 19:36:58  
...hey Harry, how about a picture of that GB Vista? I would like to see that. That should be a whole section in the photo area, one of home made or radically altered stuff farmers have made????



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