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Con rod science Part two

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Eugene VanOpdor

10-29-1998 13:29:31




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A new post to move this discussion to the top
of the pile. I have been following along and wish to add my two cents.It has been said that these tractor
engines have little in common with automotive
engines, which is not true.They are both Otto
four cycle engines.The principles to improve
engine performance within a given RPM range are
the same! That said, rod/stroke ratio is important to max-
imizing power because of its' relationship to cam-
shaft specifications.Translated, that means the
valves need to be open and closed to seal maximum
pressure in the cylinder.Valve movement needs to
be timed just like ignition does.Piston acceleration
with lower rod ratios happens sooner, in crankshaft
degrees,than with higher ratios.Two engines, identical
except for rod lenth, would need to have the camshaft
"degreed" differently to make the most power. IHRA pro stock cars have 800 plus c.i. with rod
ratios low as 1.25, the point being not to give the
competition a cubic inch advantage for a better rod ratio.Even though racing V-8s rev much higher than
pulling engines, they still operate in a narrow rpm
range,similar to pulling. Acceleration is crucial to pulling, even antiques
because momentum will help you go farther, especially in classes under 5500 lbs.Otherwise, why would we
need taller gears and faster ring and pinions? To help compare engines of similar horsepower but
different displacement, remember this formula.
torque times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower.

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Butch

10-29-1998 18:42:01




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 Re: Con rod science Part two in reply to Eugene VanOpdorp, 10-29-1998 13:29:31  
: I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I am somewhat reluctant to add
a post due to the fact that some of you people evidently are very knowlegeable on this subject.
My question: When you stroke a MM engine, what do
you do about rods? Do you find a suitable replace-
ment off the shelf, or do you cut and weld an original? Sorry if this seems like a "stupid question", but I have no experience in this area
and am curious as to how you engine builders go about this.

A new post to move this discussion to the top
: of the pile. : I have been following along and wish to add my : two cents.It has been said that these tractor
: engines have little in common with automotive
: engines, which is not true.They are both Otto
: four cycle engines.The principles to improve
: engine performance within a given RPM range are
: the same!
: That said, rod/stroke ratio is important to max-
: imizing power because of its' relationship to cam-
: shaft specifications.Translated, that means the
: valves need to be open and closed to seal maximum
: pressure in the cylinder.Valve movement needs to
: be timed just like ignition does.Piston acceleration
: with lower rod ratios happens sooner, in crankshaft
: degrees,than with higher ratios.Two engines, identical
: except for rod lenth, would need to have the camshaft
: "degreed" differently to make the most power.
: IHRA pro stock cars have 800 plus c.i. with rod
: ratios low as 1.25, the point being not to give the
: competition a cubic inch advantage for a better rod : ratio.Even though racing V-8s rev much higher than
: pulling engines, they still operate in a narrow rpm
: range,similar to pulling.
: Acceleration is crucial to pulling, even antiques
: because momentum will help you go farther, especially : in classes under 5500 lbs.Otherwise, why would we
: need taller gears and faster ring and pinions?
: To help compare engines of similar horsepower but
: different displacement, remember this formula.
: torque times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower.

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Eugene VanOpdorp

11-06-1998 11:28:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Con rod science Part two in reply to Butch, 10-29-1998 18:42:01  
: : I have been following this thread with a great : deal of interest. I am somewhat reluctant to add
: a post due to the fact that some of you people : evidently are very knowlegeable on this subject.
: My question: When you stroke a MM engine, what do
: you do about rods? Do you find a suitable replace-
: ment off the shelf, or do you cut and weld an : original? Sorry if this seems like a "stupid : question", but I have no experience in this area
: and am curious as to how you engine builders go : about this.

: A new post to move this discussion to the top
: : of the pile. : : I have been following along and wish to add my : : two cents.It has been said that these tractor
: : engines have little in common with automotive
: : engines, which is not true.They are both Otto
: : four cycle engines.The principles to improve
: : engine performance within a given RPM range are
: : the same!
: : That said, rod/stroke ratio is important to max-
: : imizing power because of its' relationship to cam-
: : shaft specifications.Translated, that means the
: : valves need to be open and closed to seal maximum
: : pressure in the cylinder.Valve movement needs to
: : be timed just like ignition does.Piston acceleration
: : with lower rod ratios happens sooner, in crankshaft
: : degrees,than with higher ratios.Two engines, identical
: : except for rod lenth, would need to have the camshaft
: : "degreed" differently to make the most power.
: : IHRA pro stock cars have 800 plus c.i. with rod
: : ratios low as 1.25, the point being not to give the
: : competition a cubic inch advantage for a better rod : : ratio.Even though racing V-8s rev much higher than
: : pulling engines, they still operate in a narrow rpm
: : range,similar to pulling.
: : Acceleration is crucial to pulling, even antiques
: : because momentum will help you go farther, especially : : in classes under 5500 lbs.Otherwise, why would we
: : need taller gears and faster ring and pinions?
: : To help compare engines of similar horsepower but
: : different displacement, remember this formula.
: : torque times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower.

Replacement rods for stroker applications are often from
other engines. An engine is laid out on paper, a length is
geusstimate is made, and you start looking for something close.
Often when offset grinding a crank a small rod journal big end
is welded to the little end of the original rod to get the correct length. Farmall H big ends are a common donors
when using this method. Custom rods, forged and billet, are
now available from several manufacturers. While expensive,
these do gaurantee the rod is not twisted or bent. Hope this helps you, remember a "stupid" question is cheaper than a
"stupid" mistake!

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Pete Brandel

11-10-1998 19:36:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Con rod science Part two in reply to Eugene VanOpdorp, 11-06-1998 11:28:59  

: : : I have been following this thread with a great : : deal of interest. I am somewhat reluctant to add
: : a post due to the fact that some of you people : : evidently are very knowlegeable on this subject.
: : My question: When you stroke a MM engine, what do
: : you do about rods? Do you find a suitable replace-
: : ment off the shelf, or do you cut and weld an : : original? Sorry if this seems like a "stupid : : question", but I have no experience in this area
: : and am curious as to how you engine builders go : : about this.

: : A new post to move this discussion to the top
: : : of the pile. : : : I have been following along and wish to add my : : : two cents.It has been said that these tractor
: : : engines have little in common with automotive
: : : engines, which is not true.They are both Otto
: : : four cycle engines.The principles to improve
: : : engine performance within a given RPM range are
: : : the same!
: : : That said, rod/stroke ratio is important to max-
: : : imizing power because of its' relationship to cam-
: : : shaft specifications.Translated, that means the
: : : valves need to be open and closed to seal maximum
: : : pressure in the cylinder.Valve movement needs to
: : : be timed just like ignition does.Piston acceleration
: : : with lower rod ratios happens sooner, in crankshaft
: : : degrees,than with higher ratios.Two engines, identical
: : : except for rod lenth, would need to have the camshaft
: : : "degreed" differently to make the most power.
: : : IHRA pro stock cars have 800 plus c.i. with rod
: : : ratios low as 1.25, the point being not to give the
: : : competition a cubic inch advantage for a better rod : : : ratio.Even though racing V-8s rev much higher than
: : : pulling engines, they still operate in a narrow rpm
: : : range,similar to pulling.
: : : Acceleration is crucial to pulling, even antiques
: : : because momentum will help you go farther, especially : : : in classes under 5500 lbs.Otherwise, why would we
: : : need taller gears and faster ring and pinions?
: : : To help compare engines of similar horsepower but
: : : different displacement, remember this formula.
: : : torque times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower.

: Replacement rods for stroker applications are often from
: other engines. An engine is laid out on paper, a length is
: geusstimate is made, and you start looking for something close.
: Often when offset grinding a crank a small rod journal big end
: is welded to the little end of the original rod to : get the correct length. Farmall H big ends are a common donors
: when using this method. Custom rods, forged and billet, are
: now available from several manufacturers. While expensive,
: these do gaurantee the rod is not twisted or bent. Hope this : helps you, remember a "stupid" question is cheaper than a
: "stupid" mistake!

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