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Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull.

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UBDan

09-01-2001 19:07:30




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I have been pulling my UB only this past summer. My buddy, who has an Allis d-17, also just started pulling and has consistently beaten me time and time again. We pull in the 6500# and 7500# classes and when we dynoed he had 52 hp and I had 54 hp. I power out on heavy tracks and he hasn't powered out yet or even shifted to lo with what he calls a powerdirector. Something like a Ampli-Torc. What is he doing to cheat or is a UB not the right choice for stock pulls?

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cody

11-29-2001 17:59:22




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Ok,the last thing you want to do is get an allis. I have a friend who has a stock UB and walks away with at least 3rd place every time. He runs 14.9.38's. You need more tourque, you can take out the cam and send it to "barry cam" in lester prarie(MN) He would Know just how you need it ground. This will make a night and day difference and you will still beat the dyno. And if you want to get real drastic I think the crank out of a G would fit in the U block. You will nedd to us the jugs from the G also. this will give you an inch more stroke . the stroke with the cam would be a deadly combination.
I would rather see you push a Moline off the track than driving an Allis.

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Sam Maass

11-23-2001 06:10:32




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Our boys in S.W. Minnesota modified the flyweights on the goveners Of MMs. I'm not sure what they did, but it seemed to work. Sam



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get a 5 star

09-06-2001 04:35:07




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
And kick that A-C`s butt



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RIGHT. Dream on.

09-09-2001 15:40:39




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to get a 5 star, 09-06-2001 04:35:07  
Good luck. You'll need it. That D17 would send you home with your tail between your legs. I've seen it done at a plowing demo in the late 50's.



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Bob

09-05-2001 06:58:07




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
I recently aquired a UTS and in my first pull took first in the over 5001 class. I'm hooked but need help. Is there any good books etc to get me started. I would rather pull a MM or JD. My WD is ok but just not as much fun. Would like to find a source for tips on pulling, like draw bar, tire size etc. whats legal for stock etc. Bob
Good luck and hope you get the right combo. Bob



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A-C

09-04-2001 20:13:10




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
I think the secret is the lighter internal components that allow that D-17 to use more power for pulling the sled and less on spinning the crank and connecting rods. Same for the transmission. And a governor that won't let the engine get caught by a sudden load as can happen on tracks with soft and hard spots.



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JBJ

09-04-2001 19:18:56




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Well UBDan,

The way it sounds to me is that the Allis is getting the power it has to the ground better. What condition are your tires... Here's another thing, does your front end stay planted during the pull? If your front end stays stays planted, your weight distribution needs to be changed to more weight in the back. The apparent weight transfer of your tractor might not be enough to beat any tractor if you don't have the weight where you need it. Perhaps change some of your weights further to the back of the tractor. In my opinion, your UB should eat that D-17 alive. I have a friend who pulls a UB, it has aluminum pistons and he can nearly always come out in the top 3 in his weight class. I love this discussion. Keep the strings coming!!

Signed, 6 Cylinder Oliver Fan...

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Will H.

09-04-2001 04:25:41




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Only way to beat an Allis with a comparable weight and horse power tractor is with another Allis.



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Tom

09-03-2001 21:27:26




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
I have the same problem with powering out on my MM UTU in 6000, 6500 and 7000 on a hard track. I've watched in awe as Farmall M's have walked past me. The problem has nothing to do with horsepower and everything to do with torque. My UTU at rated engine RPM in low gear has a ground speed of 2.6 mph which is plenty high for a tractor. The Farmalls and I suspect the Allis D17 will have slower ground speeds in low gear at rated RPM (with the Allis, perhaps even in high range). What this means is that those tractors are transferring more torque to the rear wheels. Remember with gearing, the horsepower transferred is near constant but with lower gearing the torque transferred is greater. I've overcome some of the disadvantage by turning up the governor which gives me a ground speed of about 3.6 mph--good for traversing soft spots and helpful for distance since the engine is not only developing a little more horsepower but also, of course, a little more torque. Bear in mind that HP = Torque x RPM x K where K is a constant.

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Lonn

09-04-2001 20:05:08




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to Tom, 09-03-2001 21:27:26  
Checked my book and the D-17 runs 2.6mph in first gear high range while the UB runs 2.8mph. That's not much difference. I've pulled against some large tractors with my D-17 and have never powered out even in the 8,500# class. Had a MM G power out just a couple of feet ahead of me while I had plenty of power. Too bad I didn't have a little more tire.



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Mike

09-03-2001 13:19:21




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Dan sounds as though you have a problem of transfering the power you already have, to the ground. Have you considered looking at the back wheels? The larger the tires, the less torque can be transfered. I am not that familiar with the UB, but if you are running 14.9's drop to 15.5 or even all the way down to a 13.6. You will have to reajust the draw bar height but it just might be worth the effort.

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UBDan

09-03-2001 16:38:55




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to Mike, 09-03-2001 13:19:21  
I'm running 13.6x38. My friend is running 16.9x28. This fall I will challenge him to a plowing contest. He has a 4x14 Allis plow but it is mounted. I have access to an Oliver 4x16 pull-type. I think we will both use that and settle this once and for all. If he wins pulling that 4x16 Oliver then I will switch my loyalties to anything that will beat him. It's either that or "if you can't beat'em join'em".

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Mike

09-03-2001 18:09:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-03-2001 16:38:55  
Let him use the oliver and you find a good john deere plow the same size. Might whoop him then that little deere pulls alot easier.



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Dave N

09-03-2001 08:13:31




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Sounds like your U is not running up to it potential. If you are pulling in low gear you should not power out. Do a compression test to see how much you got and that the cyls. dont vary more than 10 or 15 lbs. Check your timing they wont lug if it is advanced.I have never saw a D-17 get the best of a U consistantly. Dave



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UBDan

09-03-2001 08:32:36




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to Dave N, 09-03-2001 08:13:31  
I will check these things out but it did dyno at about 54 hp which seems strong. Maybe the UB transmission just isn't efficient enough to transfer all the power. It's the only thing I can think of.



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LL

09-02-2001 17:17:31




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
I realize I should save this for the Allis board but a D-17 is a phenominal tractor. I,ve beaten tractors with 100 more cubes many times with my D-17.



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galen

09-02-2001 12:55:20




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
You definitely have a problem either fuel related or govenor is where I would start. I've seen a lot of 17 allis's in this country but none gutsy enough to stay with an M farmall or good running UB. Allis always stood out more on mounted equipment than drawbar. Check drawbar height and other things along those lines. Is he spinning out of lifting up. Several things to consider and compare. You should be able to spinout on a hard track so still lean toward govenor or fuel check rpms also.

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LL

09-03-2001 13:01:11




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to galen, 09-02-2001 12:55:20  
Maybe a suped up M or UB can beat a stock D-17 but stock to stock on a track that uses alot of power a UB or M don't match up. What's even more fun is taking on the big 380 cu. in. JD 70 or a 720. Now they are easy prey.Funny how that little 226 cube engine can do it.



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Jeff

09-03-2001 17:52:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to LL, 09-03-2001 13:01:11  
Unless a 17 is cheating a UB should hang with a 17 about the same power. 17 is a good tractor but the 28`s hurt you when pulling a sled. A 17 can`t hang with a 5 star.



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Shawn

09-01-2001 20:30:52




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 Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-01-2001 19:07:30  
Hello,
I would say your on the right track, if you had a torque you could do the same thing.
My guess is he goes down the track faster untill it starts pulling then he pulls the torque back and just crawls on out the end.
Where i pull you cant shift anything torque or trans while pulling.
I guess if you really want to be like him you could upgrade to a M-5 or something with a torque.
I would really hate to see a MM guy switch to a different color tractor just to have a torque.
Im sure you could build some more powere in that UB and still be able to call it stock.
Just my thought
Shawn

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UBDan

09-02-2001 06:43:11




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 Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to Shawn, 09-01-2001 20:30:52  
As I stated earlier he has not used his torque yet, but kept it in high range. I don't want to cheat and I don't want to change colors either. I have been a MM fan for only a couple of years before that I was on the John Deere band wagon until I saw my neighbors stock 720 finish last in a pull. He refuses to pull that 720 again. I guess he does'nt want to be embaressed again.



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Shawn

09-02-2001 07:48:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-02-2001 06:43:11  
Hello,
Oh i guess i need to read better then, sounds like you could have a problem then. I guess somebody else will have to help you.
But my guess is build more power, it does a tractor wonders
Shawn



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UBDan

09-02-2001 17:19:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to Shawn, 09-02-2001 07:48:30  
Sorry. It seems I offended you and that was not my intention.



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Jim Broughton

09-04-2001 21:28:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can't seem to beat friends tractor at pull. in reply to UBDan, 09-02-2001 17:19:14  
I think your problem is in the gearbox..MMs are noted for versatility, not necessarily for great pulling power,in fact, on our farm, the M Farmalls would easily outplow the MMs....but, I did get a "speeding ticket" on our MM, wow !!
Lots of luck, and consider an Allis !! Jim



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