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585 engine problems
:

dropping valves

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Bill

06-16-2002 15:15:54




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Can anyone tell me the reasons why the 585 engine seems to have a problem dropping valves? I have a G1355 that has dropped two valves (almost consecutively after the first one was repaired), and an A4T-1600 that also has dropped a valve. Any thoughts from other owners/users or mechanics about preventing this problem would be appreciated.




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Dave

06-21-2002 19:36:48




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 Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to Bill, 06-16-2002 15:15:54  
Turbo is on the right track, and if the valves and valve seats have been groung the spring height may be too short. The valve seats deeper into the head causing the spring to be too short.
The valve keeper and retainer should never seperate. They do make shims to raise the springs,a lot of race car engine builders use them.



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m kuhns

06-16-2002 20:42:15




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 Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to Bill, 06-16-2002 15:15:54  
The keepers on the valve stem could be worn or the retaining washer. Maybe the valve springs are worn out and breaking, causing the valve to drop. Are you sure the valve seats aren't falling out because of a cracked head. I have personally never had any problems, and hope I never do. What exactly is the problem. Is the head of the valve breaking off or is the valve getting sucked into the head.

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Bill

06-17-2002 15:13:10




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 Re: Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to m kuhns, 06-16-2002 20:42:15  
It appears that the valve has come loose and just dropped into the cylinder. The valve seats are fully intact and the valve springs checked out ok. Once the valve drops in, the piston smashes it up against the head, breaking it into several pieces. This is the only engine that I have ever heard of where the valve keepers would wear out over time and allow a valve to drop in. Do you think that it is a lubrication problem, otherwise what is causing the keepers to wear out? Any other thoughts that you or anyone else may have in this matter would be appreciated.

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m kuhns

06-17-2002 17:34:13




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 Re: Re: Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to Bill, 06-17-2002 15:13:10  
If you can find the old keepers, what do they look like? Look at the other valves and keepers taken out of the head that was scrapped. Are the inside edges that mate with the notch on the valve stem tapered or are the edges totally square. The valve would also have wear on the notch on the stem and be taper also. Over time, the keepers could also just pull right through the retainer if there was not enough of an interference angle between the retainer and keepers. Look at the other valves in the engine and where the keepers are postioned of the retainer. If the keepers are sitting low in the retainer this could be you problem. Otherwise the keeper groove on the stem and notches on the keepers are wearing out. It could because of a lack of lubrication. Is the problem with the same head or are valves dropping in under different heads.

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Bill

06-18-2002 17:33:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to m kuhns, 06-17-2002 17:34:13  
On the G1355, both valves from the third head have dropped into the cylinder. The first one to go was the #6 valve and shortly thereafter (a few hours after the #6 valve and piston were replaced) the #5 valve dropped in. The previous owner suspected that it may be a lubrication problem, but he really wasn't sure. Since the identical thing happened to our A4T-1600 and I have heard of other cases from other MM owners, I want to verify the reasons for this problem before I stick a ton of money in these engines.

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freddy

06-17-2002 17:24:09




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 Re: Re: Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to Bill, 06-17-2002 15:13:10  
a lot of engines were capable of wearing out there valve keepers. VW was famous for that.



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TURBO

06-21-2002 11:39:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 585 engine problems - dropping valves in reply to freddy, 06-17-2002 17:24:09  
If you are wearing out keepers and retainers most likely you have bad valve springs. Think about it if the spring is strong enough the keeper will never become loose in the retainer. This holds true for nearly all rpm's. Tractor pullers need stronger springs to prevent this same problem. Also you can buy hardened keepers to help with this problem. I would recommend replacing all springs & hardware now before you have any more expense on these units. I know parts for them are high.

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