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Discussion Forum
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585 Diesel/ Weak Engine?

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mbd

10-10-2002 20:15:50




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I was reading the archives about the G1355 and others and saw a note from galen that says that 585 was the weakest engine design that MM ever produced. I have a G1355 but haven't had it that long and wanted to know what are the weak points that haven't already been discussed on the discussion board. I know about the oil pump problem on early models. Mine is a later model that has external pump from factory. (in fact the engine tag say it is a "White" engine instead of MM) I assume that they started tagging the engines White after they made the external oil pump modification standard. Anyway, mine starts easy,runs great, doesn't use oil, and has incredible power. It also rides like a Cadillac and I really like it. I just wanted to know why this is the weakest engine design that MM ever came up with. Thanks for the comments

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m kuhns

10-15-2002 19:20:36




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 Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to mbd, 10-10-2002 20:15:50  
The 585 is a respectable engine. We have a 2155 Oliver and a 2-150 White with the 585 in. Both have on turbo's. The 2155 we quit farming with and pull only because of the issue with the camhaft oil pump gear. We are running around 350Hp with the old 2155. Somewhere in the G-1355 Oliver's they started switching to external oil pumps. I believe all of the 2-150 White's had the external pump. The 2-150 we use to farm with running 225Hp. The engine seems to hold the power quite well and don't have any problems. The cooling system keeps it cool enough if the radiator is kept clean. In order to handle the power though, we had to put in a double disc clutch out of a 2-180. The only real weak point of the whole engine is the bottom end. The crank is supported by only 4 mains instead of 7 like other six cylinders have. The mains are just a little bit bigger than the rod bearings. So, the mains wear out about twice as fast as the rod bearings. The ring lands on the normal pistons are fairly narrow and that is why we had to overhaul it this past year. We put in pistons that will handle the turbo better like in the 2655 turboed engines. They have keystone rings and are a lot wider. Good Luck

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freddy

10-12-2002 08:50:48




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 Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to mbd, 10-10-2002 20:15:50  
The really only problem area on the D585 was the oil pump drive, internal that is. And that was from mostly the Iowa built tractor engines. Mostly a manufacturing flaw. which was highlighted by turning up the oil pressure. the two didn't go together well. It spelled disaster a few times. with the external oil pump people have turboed these tractor engines an pushed 250 HP out of them and they lasted. that is not bad from a 170HP engine. JD 531 was an example of an engine plaged with problems too. Turning the pump up on that engine was almost guaranteed disaster. Yet left alone and properly maintained they made a good tractor engine. the D585 is the same way, some engines don't tolerate abuse much. Remember the olds diesel's they would fall apart fast with poor maintenance, yet a friend of mine drove his car over 200,000 miles with the original engine,becase it was maintained to a high level. Good luck with your MM .

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Kevin Bauza

10-12-2002 19:26:54




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 Re: Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to freddy, 10-12-2002 08:50:48  
The manufacturing flaw I heard about was the camshaft was not properly heat treated in the oil pump drive area. It was "soft" and after a period of time wore out. Increasing the oil pressure only intensified the problem



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Eric Berglund

03-11-2006 05:32:15




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 Re: Re: Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to Kevin Bauza, 10-12-2002 19:26:54  
Curious as to why someone would be turning up the oil pressure? What should the oil pressure be outside of the factory specs?



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Kevin Bauza

10-10-2002 22:02:34




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 Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to mbd, 10-10-2002 20:15:50  
I THINK the oil pump problems flared up strongly as the White 2-150 was being produced; because to the best of my memory the neighbor's had the update installed after delivery. If a 2-150 sales catalog could be located, one could see if the mod. is installed on the nice new tractors in the glossy prints. My understanding is that the ring lands on the pistons are on the thin side and are prone to wear earlier. The 2-150 I mentioned earlier has over 6000 hrs on the original pistons, and still starts and runs good. ( I do not have this documented, but the owners would not intentionally mis-represent the facts) That tractor has been on a large grain/hog/dairy farm since new. It was worked! In my opinion all MM engines needed better cooling systems, especially when used closer to the equater. I know some of these engines were turbocharged to the 200 hp area, and lets face it; they needed some beefing up to do that reliably on a long term basis. There was a manual put out by MM called "So You Want To Soup Up Your Tractor" BOTTOM LINE: A stock MM engine will give good reliable service. WE FAIL to remember that the 585 is pushing 40 year old technology. Take a look at competitive engines from that era and their expected lifespan. When IH introduced the 400 series engines for the 66 series, they boasted of the 6000 hr. expected lifespan. This would have been in the early 70's.

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Harrold Rhodes

10-20-2002 15:01:22




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 Re: Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to Kevin Bauza, 10-10-2002 22:02:34  
I don't like to call any MM engine weak. It was for all the reasons already mentioned my least favorite. The external oil pump definitely improved it. The MAN injection system made it really quiet and smooth running but made it harder starting. These are my personal opinions.



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StuZ

10-13-2002 17:36:22




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 Re: Re: 585 Diesel/ Weak Engine? in reply to Kevin Bauza, 10-10-2002 22:02:34  
The cam gears were the problem, but the external
oil pump wasn't installed at the factory
I have my doubts if any 585's came from the factory with the external pumps
I put several of them on as an update from White
seems like that might have been in '76 ??
Then they changed the relief valves the next year

It's a good 170 HP engine, nice and slow :-)



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