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The War Is On!

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 07:10:51

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You should have seen me last night trying to get the nut off of the crank pulley. I have seen posts about guys' wives and I have to tell you, mine is great. She is helping me. Unfortunately, this nut seems like it is welded on. I have used all the ideas I have gotten so far on this board and still can't break it loose. Last night, I put a huge pair of vice grips on the PTO shaft with a big cheater bar and braced this against the fender, next, we put tractor in 3rd gear(highest my 9N has), then my wife stood on both brakes and I took a two foot handle pipe wrench to the nut and still can't get it loose. I'd like to use a lifeline, can we ask the audience three questions? 1) does the nut on the end of the crank thread backwards? 2) anyone ever run into one that had been welded on? and 3) what about heating up the nut with a propane torch, do you think this might help? As always, your expertise and help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chuck

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Keith_Md

06-13-2001 10:31:41

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

This might be more work for you, but trust me it will not work if your crank pulley bolt is welded. Take off the front end so that you can get an impact gun on the crank pulley bolt. I tried everthing you did and finally had to remove the front end and use the gun. It came loose within 10 seconds of running the impact gun on it. Alot of work, but you might find (like I did) that it was time to change the front axle bushing and king pin. And then that leads to other things, like rebuilding the steering box, new spindle bushings and bearing stripping the whole tractor to bare metal and painting it... you get the picture. It's addicting fixing up these old girl's. Sounds like your having fun with it, and to me, that makes it all worth it! LOL

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roperboy

06-13-2001 09:47:05

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

chuck, i just had to take mine off the other nite and had a similar stuck one. only my engine is out(what fun!). it is a 1 5/16 bolt.i got a good impact socket and a 2 foot breaker bar. my oil pan was off so i wrapped a crowbar with rags and wedged it between crank and block. then took a small sledge and whacked the breaker bar and it broke loose. it has normal right hand threads. good luck. roperboy in sedalia

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TimK

06-13-2001 09:08:02

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

You've got a lot of good responses, so's here's my $.02. It is a bolt, with standard threads. A propane torch isn't hot enough, plus on a bolt, heat will just expand the bolt and the surrounding metal which gets you no where. Lock up the engine with either the PTO pipe wrench procedure, or take the starter off and stick a crow bar in the ring gear. Try to jar the bolt by hitting the strong arm wrench with a hammer. If it doesn't give get you a big heavy cheater bar on the end of your strong arm wrench and have at it. I guarantee the bolt will unscrew (unless it's welded) or will break the bolt head off (which I doubt since it's a big heavy bolt), in which case you will have to drill out the remainder. One of the responses mentioned beating on the pulley a little. OK, but beware, if you hit it too hard, you will create excessive runout in the pulley, which may be impossible to fix and will cause problems with the fan belt. And it's kind of tough to find good original pulley replacements if in fact you want to keep it original.

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 09:18:54

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Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to TimK, 06-13-2001 09:08:02

Thanks to everyone! More good suggestions as always. One more thing, What size is the bolt head, 1 3/8, maybe? I bought a big, 1 1/4 wrench and it isn't quite big enough, thus been using the pipe wrench, which likes to slip off the bolt head.

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Claus

06-13-2001 08:24:41

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

Put a breaker bar on the nut with the correct socket and place the end of the breaker bar on a suitable wood block and with the ignition off, jog the starter motor. Got many stuck vib damer bolts off that way in the old days.
Happy Motoring
Claus

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 09:37:27

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Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to Claus, 06-13-2001 08:24:41

Claus, thanks, I am ready to try anything. What is the right size socket, maybe 1 3/8?. Your procedure scares Rob, he thinks I may damage the ring gear, what do you think?

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Claus

06-13-2001 11:10:39

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Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 09:37:27

The last time I used that procedure was about 20 years ago on a Buick Lesabre when I changed the front seal. Of course they do not have ring gears. The teeth are machined into the flywheel. The socket should break before the ring gear comes off. Of course if yours is "loose" then I guess it could come off and I do not want to be responsible for that mess, so take my or any advice with a grain of salt...
Happy Motoring
Claus

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1 5/16 hex . . . Dell (WA)

06-13-2001 10:00:52

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Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 09:37:27

I think that by this time I would have removed the hood (if'n I could) Sometimes, being able to see things straight on, helps. Pully Bolt head is 1 5/16 hex with 4 fingers for a crank..... .Dell

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 15:31:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to 1 5/16 hex . . . Dell (WA), 06-13-2001 10:00:52

Dell, thanks. I pulled the hood and front wheels a long time ago. I noticed some posts a couple of weeks ago that said that you could do this without pulling front end. I knew right away that that wouldn't work for me. 1 and 5/16. Thanks, I was getting ready to buy another wrong size wrench! chuck

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Greg

06-13-2001 08:19:34

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

Hi Chuck,
Sounds like you've been having fun! This should be a bolt not a nut. It should be right hand threaded. I do remember a post about someone finding their's welded to the pulley. This would be tough to remove because the pulley should be indexed on the cranksnout woodruff key and should not turn. If your's were welded, I would think you would be able to see it. Mine originally had a big slotted screw in it, ended up chiseling it around until I could get it worked out. Replaced it with a bolt and lockwasher. Don't know if you own or have access to air pressure and an impact gun. The vibration and torque will work wonders sometimes.

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rob 8N11071 KS

06-13-2001 08:18:04

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

1) threads- On my 8N, it threads the standard way -- it's not a reverse thread. I assume the 9N is the same. My parts catalog shows the same part for engines 1939-1950, so I assume it is the same as my '48.

2) welded on- not me, but I don't see how or why one would need to weld it on.

3) using heat- I tried this when I got my pulley on caddy-wampus and it was of no help.

Part of what was confusing me the first time I worked with the crank pulley was that it's not a nut, it's a bolt. I think heat would also heat up the bolt threads inside the crank and cause the bolt to expand as well and make it harder.

It also sucks because you can't just destroy the "nut" and buy a new one.

if you take the pan off (unless it's jacked up on the pan) you could get some penetrating oil up into the threads in the shaft.

Unless you're dead set on hanging on to that crank pulley, you might hammer on it a bit (toward the engine) and see if there is forward tension against the head of the ratchet bolt contributing to the problem.

Don't hammer too hard though. That pulley isn't the sturdiest part on the tractor.

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Danny in CO

06-13-2001 08:09:46

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Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 07:10:51

Chuck,

What nut on the end of the crank are you talking about? On the front-end of the crank on my 48 8N was a slotted screw that hold the crankshaft pully on. Is that what you mean?

Danny

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 09:12:30

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Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to Danny in CO, 06-13-2001 08:09:46

Danny, Mine is a '41 9N, so maybe it is a little different, It is the nut, or as I am finding out, the bolt that holds the crank pulley onto the shaft. It has flanges on the end that I imagine accomodated the hand crank and if you look into the center of the head of the bolt, it appears to be concave. I think I am going to try to reinstall my starter and take Claus' suggestion of locking down nut with socket and bumping starter. Thanks, Chuck

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rob 8N11071 KS

06-13-2001 09:28:25

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Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 06-13-2001 09:12:30

I am most definitely a newbie to N stuff, but that procedure sounded to me like a you had a chance of tearing the ring gear lose from the flywheel. It's just pressed on unless someone has welded yours.

I have no doubt in Claus' expertise, but the procedure scares me a little.

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Salmoneye-That Was Me

06-13-2001 09:31:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to rob 8N11071 KS , 06-13-2001 09:28:25

It was me that suggested that method and I would not try it until you try and use an impact wrench on there....

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rob 8N11071 KS

06-13-2001 09:39:53

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to Salmoneye-That Was Me, 06-13-2001 09:31:57

claus also suggested it today.

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Salmoneye-LOL

06-13-2001 09:41:41

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to rob 8N11071 KS , 06-13-2001 09:39:53

I see that now!
I was talking about the first time Chuck asked the other day.

That will teach me to read from the bottom up :-)

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9N Chuck in MO

06-13-2001 15:04:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The War Is On! in reply to Salmoneye-LOL, 06-13-2001 09:41:41

I remembered this approach from the other day but I was going to try all other methods first. Now, I am going to try it, so wish me luck. Thanks to everyone, Chuck. PS I'll let you know how the next battle goes!

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