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8n backfired then died. uPdate?

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OKcity8n

07-06-2001 11:47:36




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First, I don't need electronic theory since I also have worked the industry for over 30 years. However, I may need parts theory. According to what I read here and the archives, the 6 volt ballast resistor is too large to use with the 12 volt coil, causing a reduced quality of sparkies. Therefore, it should not cause the coil to overheat if the tractor does start and run with this resistor (which also appears to be common in the archives). Mine has been working just fine with the new 12 volt coil and the original 6 volt resistor until yesterday. If these coils are so sensitive, is there a source that sells more sturdy ones? $30 plus shipping is a bit steep for 45 minutes use. The coil was clearly labeled 12 volt, no instructions. My voltage readings were on the low side, not high. This coil came from Don's, a respected source according to this board. The catalog shows 12 volt coils, but only resistors for 6 volt. TSC only sells 6 volt coils and they don't have the resistors. Radio Shack can't find their electrons. Thanks for listening.

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OKcity8n

07-06-2001 15:45:26




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 Re: 8n backfired then died. uPdate? in reply to OKcity8n, 07-06-2001 11:47:36  
As I said before, I fully understand electronic theory; it is a 49, front mount; and, the current coil is/was a new 12 volt coil that I purchased, NOT a 6 volt coil (according to the label on the coil). History on the tractor is being made now as the previous owner died shortly after I received the tractor. I just find it amazing that someone would go to the trouble of making an aftermarket coil for a 12 volt system which did not exist and still use something as an insulator that melts when it gets hot. Since the coil has been working flawlessly, I can only assume it was marginal to begin with and the increase in ambient temperature was enough to push it over the edge since I am using the 6 volt ballast resistor, which is not supposed to be able to provide enough current to the 12 volt coil for good sparkies. I have already replaced everything in the system, except the resistor, due to other starting problems at the beginning of this year. I was thrilled when it all started working again. Replacing the coil then solved the last of my problems. The current symptoms, although similar, are different from the symptoms of the shorted coil. When Dell(I respect Dell's opinions; he knows his stuff.) spoke of changing the resistor in a previous post, it was to use a Radio Shack resistor, not a standard ballast resistor. (I don't respect Radio Shack's knowledge of electronics). If the problem is as stated in that post, then the resistor is the problem, not the coil. I may even have enough junk electronic parts to build a resistor cluster to use as a substitute. The coil should still be undamaged if it was good to begin with. Hopefully, I will get a chance to remove the distributor during the cool of the morning tomorrow. The problem is not something so pressing as to make me want to get out in the heat to fix it,,,,,yet.

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Mountainman

07-07-2001 02:04:51




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 Re: Re: 8n backfired then died. uPdate? in reply to OKcity8n, 07-06-2001 15:45:26  
"I just find it amazing that someone would go to the trouble of making an aftermarket coil for a 12 volt system which did not exist and still use something as an insulator that melts when it gets hot." And has no brand name on it nor does it come with instructions. Or even a 'permenant' 12 volt mark, just a sticker.
Gotta admit I wondered about that too.

Hope you solve the problem soon so you can N — joy.

Mountainman (CA)

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Dell (WA)

07-06-2001 23:45:09




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 Re: Re: 8n backfired then died. uPdate? in reply to OKcity8n, 07-06-2001 15:45:26  
As we are learning, not all 12 volt frontmount ignition coils are as robust as we'd like 'em to be. Reports of 3 bad coils in a row have been made. I know of only 1 frontmount 12 volt coil manufacturer, so I don't think who you buy the coil from, its still the same weak 'un.

The need for a resistor with the 12 volt frontmount coil is to limit current thru the primary and its subsiquent effect on heating the insulative tar which ends up melting and allowing the primary turn to short out.

We measure the current flow by using the reciprocitity effect of "Ohms Law" with a voltmeter. Volt meters are much more accurate and eazier to use than inline amp meters measuring current.

One thing that might be worth while trying is to open up the ignition points gap from 0.015 to say 0.020. this will cut down the amount of time that the current flows thru the primary and conconurently reduce the over heating effect.

If'n you do try wider points gap, check and make certain that the points do indeed close and open by manually turning the distributor cam and visusally watching all the action.

This wider points gap will reduce your magnetic field that generates the sparkies in the secondary. So you may have high rpm misses, I don't think it will effect starting sparkies.

This is something I have not personally tried because I have a sidemount 6 volt 8N, but it is a speculation..... ..Dell

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Ed-illinois

07-06-2001 14:18:35




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 Re: 8n backfired then died. uPdate? in reply to OKcity8n, 07-06-2001 11:47:36  
Electrical is certainly not my strong suit. However, as it was explained to me, a 6volt coil needs a resistor to drop the volts, therefore a 12 volt coil also can't take straight 12 volts. Unless, of course, as Dell sugested you get a more sturdy coil meant for 12 real volts.

Personally, I got my 2N about a year ago. It ran fine until winter when the coil went out. It was shortly after that when I realized that a previous owner had bypassed the resistor and was sending generator output to the coil (something in the range of 7 volts). I rewired for the resistor and it has started well ever since.

Good luck

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Mountainman

07-06-2001 12:01:35




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 Re: 8n backfired then died. uPdate? in reply to OKcity8n, 07-06-2001 11:47:36  
I know little of electronic theory but I do have a front mount distributor 8N converted to 12 volts. I don't recall if yours is front or side mount. Some side mount coils can take a full 12 volts. Front mount coils cannot take a full 12 volts much less the additional voltage produced by the alternator. So a resistor is in order. I solved the problem by getting a resistor like one used in a '57 chevy and I get 7.5 volts at the coil with points closed, key on, engine off. Battery voltage with point open. Most of the posts here recommend 8 to 10 volts at coil. I eliminated the original resistor from the circut.

Hope this helps.

Mountainman (CA)

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