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Runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...]

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Rod

08-01-2001 09:14:02




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My 9n circa 1949 runs with brush hog fine for an hour today then quits [sputters and dies]. It will restart every time but only runs for a short period[10-30 secs] dependent on the length of the wait. This same scenario took place yesterday. I checked the gas flow to the carb. cleaned the "elbow" screen/filter after yesterdays stoppage. She ran fine again today for 58 mins while hogging...then a repeat performance! If this is the condenser which I replaced early this summer what is the easiest way to test it. And most importantly is there a cause for condensers to go bad. For instance, my inability to have adjusted the points or timing on the distributer correctly when I replaced all but the cap? A rambling question, but you guys always come through! Thanks, Rod

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Ron/Pa

08-01-2001 12:52:17




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 Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Rod, 08-01-2001 09:14:02  
Just my thoughts, Double check your fuel flow through the carb. not just to it! Floats get wierd sometimes. Since you have checked the switch, look at the ballast resistor next, (cause its cheaper) finally go on to the coil but do not overlook the condenser, they have thier own set of games they like to play. good luck
Ron



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Phil (AZ)

08-01-2001 12:09:38




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 Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Rod, 08-01-2001 09:14:02  
Rod, It sound like a fuel tank venting problem, easy
to check, when it quits just open the CAP for a few seconds.

Hope this Helps



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9N Chuck In MO

08-01-2001 10:49:20




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 Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Rod, 08-01-2001 09:14:02  
Gets hot and fails, I'm betting on the coil. Do you have front mount dist.? Check ignition switch first, then go to coil. switch much cheaper than coil. If it is the coil, make sure and replace with same voltage coil. Do you know if you have 6 or 12 volt coil now? Good luck, Chuck



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rod

08-01-2001 12:33:50




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 Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to 9N Chuck In MO, 08-01-2001 10:49:20  
Update. Thanks for the comments. Ed,the block only is a 1949 appearently. My baby is a cannibal with all 9n parts and an 8n block and numbers. I checked the ignition switch thats not it. I rechecked the gas flow, and it's good all the way to the carb. I waited an hour or so to cool off everything and tried again. She only ran about 10 sec. sometimes less and will start again with only about 2 or 3 sec in between tries. Sometimes pumping the choke keeps it running longer. opening the carberator main jet seemed to help but then that to failed to extend the running time on subsequent tries. The tractor has a 12v system and I assume the coil [a square one on the front mount distributer] is a 12v as it has been working fine for 3 to 5 years. Every once on a try she runs for 4 to 5 MINUTES instead of secounds. Go fiqure!?!?! The only changes I have made were replacing condensor and points to solve a similar problem. Which seemed to do the trick. However, I only used the tractor for short stints. Then with the brush hog and an hour or more the problems began [or maybe resumed?] I also replaced the selonoid probably unneccessarily...She starts immediatly with or without the choke and sounds great and then dies, sometimes starting to revive revving and then dying again. I kind of hate to put the money into a new coil only to end up with a spare coil...but if you "ask the audience" it's usually a good idea to go with there vote.... It's not a million bucks but hey, my 9n/8n won't cut it! and right now that's more important!!!

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Dell (WA)`

08-01-2001 13:20:52




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 Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to rod, 08-01-2001 12:33:50  
Rod..... ..there are 2 time/heat related N-Tractor problem/causes. 1) bad gunked up internal ignition switch contacts, usually manifests itself about 15 minutes after starting. A jumper wire around the switch is quick & eazy fix check. OR 2) frontmount ignition coil, usually manifests itself after about 1 hr of running. And again, it is more common on 12 volt conversions which is what you have.

Unfortunately, there is no eazy shadetree mechanic test for bad a ignition coil like you are experiencing. Most experienced mechanics don't even bother trying to check a run for a while then quits ignition coil complaint. They just replace the coil and charge the customer.

And unfortunately, since there is no "standard" 12 volt conversion for the frontmount N-Tractor, I can only guess wheather you need a new OEM 6 volt coil or the new 12 volt coil. But since you claim that your tractor has been converted and running fine for 3-5 year, I'll guess it has the OEM 6 volt coil UNLESS you know for sure otherwize.

Replace your frontmount ignition coil..... ..Dell

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rod

08-01-2001 13:43:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Dell (WA)`, 08-01-2001 13:20:52  
Dell, I tried the ignition switch bypass to no avail. There is a little white resister behind the "instrument panel" that I assume is there to facilitate the use of a 6 volt coil!?? Is it possible that the condenser is the culprit here? I have heard that they are notorious for being bad from the factory. Or am I grasping at the cheapest rather than the more likely possability? Thanks, Rod



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Dell (WA)

08-01-2001 15:40:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to rod, 08-01-2001 13:43:43  
Rod..... ..bad condensers 1) "open", burns the points out, just like the condenser was not even there, which is why there is a condenser to begin with, to keep from burning out the points. 2) "shorted", if'n shorted, the points will effectively always be closed. remember, sparkies happen when the points open. your condenser is not shorted because you get sparkies 3) "leaky", would reduce your sparkies to a low level, probably too low to start engine. Would also burn out points. You claim none of theses problems.

Conclusion: you do not have a condenser problem.

Yes, little white resistor is there to make your 6 volt OEM frontmount ignition coil work on 12 volts. You need both a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor AND the infamous OEM "ballast resistor". They must be connected in series like flashlight batterys.

From all the information that you have provided, everything sez: you've got a bad OEM 6 volt ignition coil. Replace it..... ...Dell

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rod

08-01-2001 16:23:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Dell (WA), 08-01-2001 15:40:25  
Dell, Thanks, the ignition coil is on order! Rod.



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Jim(FL)

08-02-2001 06:05:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to rod, 08-01-2001 16:23:44  
Rod
Dell and the others are MOST LIKELY correct, coil problem.
I would recommend (strongly) that when you get your new coil, and if it fixes your problem, get back to us with the following info and maybe we can help you further. (What I mean is - maybe the coil failed for a reason!! So let us try and figure out why - other than just got old and tired)
Provide the following info Electrical system info, batt 12 volt?, alternator/converted generator 12 volt?, replacement coil 12 volt or 6 volt?, description of wiring to coil (example -switch to ballast resistor to resistor to coil)

Then with the engine not running, ignition switch on, with a volt meter give us a reading at the top of the new coil the points open and with the points closed. (REMEMBER to turn OFF the ignition switch after you have the readings!!!!!)

With this info, we may be able to ID a problem (if there is one).

Just a suggestion, Jim

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Mountainman

08-01-2001 12:51:11




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 Re: Re: Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to rod, 08-01-2001 12:33:50  
After making sure of proper fuel supply I would replace the coil. It may seem expensive now but an 'extra' known good coil isn't a bad thing to have. But I suspect that the coil is the culprit.

Mountainman (CA)



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Paul8n

08-01-2001 10:39:15




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 Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Rod, 08-01-2001 09:14:02  
Seems to have run a lond time for the switch to be bad, possible coil problem. But considering she ran an hour after cleaning elbow, I would recheck that fuel sipply. Possibly more stuff behind the last clog. Once you ensure proper fuel flow then I would look elsewhere. My .01 worth



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ED-Illinois

08-01-2001 09:32:12




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 Re: runs an hour quits, starts runs30secs quits[repeat...] in reply to Rod, 08-01-2001 09:14:02  
a 1949 9N is an 8N, isn't it?

sounds like a bad coil or ignition switch. Next time it happens, place a jumpe around the ignition switch and see if it keeps running.



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