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Henry Ford

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Richard(WY)

04-07-2000 05:21:36




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On this day in history, Henry Ford died in Dearborn, Michigan at age 83. Tractor On. Thanks Henry.




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Nolan

04-07-2000 09:33:02




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 Re: Henry Ford in reply to Richard(WY), 04-07-2000 05:21:36  
Lets not paint Henry Ford into something he wasn't. Henry Ford was a good engineer and very notable in history. He was also phenominally vicious and cruel. Look at what he did to his own son. While he did many seemingly fine things, they always seem to have a sadistic or self serving ulterior motive. While he was enamored of himself, he held the rest of the human race and our endevors in contempt. Perhaps his crowning glory to that end was receiving the Grand Cross of the Iron Eagle for his enthusiastic support of Nazism and Adolf Hitler

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Phil (NJ)

04-07-2000 16:19:41




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 Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Nolan, 04-07-2000 09:33:02  
Nolan,
You need to chill out, what’s your problem?,
work for for the IRS? April 15th problematic?,
Have a few Barley Sandwiches and join the rest of us Phil,



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also on this date....Jim(UT)

04-07-2000 07:47:58




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 Re: Henry Ford in reply to Richard(WY), 04-07-2000 05:21:36  
According to my car calendar Ford Motor Company hired Babe Ruth as a consultant in 1947; which has nothing to do with Henry since he was already dead. And has nothing to do with N tractors either I suppose.



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JerryU

04-07-2000 05:58:02




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 Re: Henry Ford in reply to Richard(WY), 04-07-2000 05:21:36  
Henry was a fantastic engineer. Unfortunately, charisma was not his long suit. He was a real mixed bag politically and left a rather mixed legacy. The driving force behind the company as we know it was Henry Ford II.

Dearborn is a real interesting place and I recommend a trip to Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield Village as well as the Spirit of Ford if you are ever in the area (I spend my days working in Dearborn as well as being a former resident).

Ford left a number of other legacies as well as the Fordson, N Series and Model T. One of the forgotten ones was the Ford Tri Motor done with the help of his friend Wm. Stout.

Anyway, without Henry we wouldn't be hanging out here in cyberspace.

Happy Birthday.

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Dave 50 8N

04-07-2000 10:30:48




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 Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to JerryU, 04-07-2000 05:58:02  
Check this Tri-Motor link out.



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llamas

04-07-2000 09:17:41




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 Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to JerryU, 04-07-2000 05:58:02  
And if you go to the Kalamazoo Air Zoo (yes, Virginia, there is a Kalamazoo) on a Saturday, you can have a ride in a Ford TriMotor. Check your dentistry before embarking.

We don't hear much about Fords airplane endeavors anymore. Maybe because one of the things you learn about Ford was that he wasn't a very pleasant guy. The original Stout Metal Aircraft Co building suffered a strike from State Farm lightning and burned to the ground, at the exact time that it was most advantageous to Ford.

Ford was actually issued a patent on a VTOL airplane powered by multiple Fordson engines. There's optimism for you . . . .

llater,

llamas

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Nolan

04-07-2000 06:19:54




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 Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to JerryU, 04-07-2000 05:58:02  
And lets not forget, the N is owed to Mr Fergison, and the T is owed to the Dodge brothers.



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Oh really........Jim(UT)

04-07-2000 07:44:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Nolan, 04-07-2000 06:19:54  
I know about what we owe to Harry Ferguson, but I haven't heard the Dodge Brothers connection to the Model T before. I'm interested. Please elaborate.



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Nolan

04-07-2000 09:32:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Oh really........Jim(UT), 04-07-2000 07:44:41  
I'm pulling this from memory right now, and a few web pages. I can better document it tonight if you wish.

Henry had been a disaster financially. He had created, and lost, something like seven corporations up to nearly this time. No one would touch him when he'd come around for money to try it one more time.

He managed to talk the Dodge brothers out of making cars for Olds, and making them for him instead. They gambled, taking a large portion of the company (25% I think) they formed, as did other backers. Henry was not allowed to run The Ford Motor Company, instead, it was headed by John Gray.

The Model A was a success. Not a resounding one, but a success. The Model T was the ultimate successor of the Model A. I think it was originally produced at the Dodge brothers facility, and later moved, but I'm not sure of that. At this point in history the Dodge brothers parted ways, dissatisfied with Henry Ford (who had become president). They believed they could build a superior vehicle, and set up their own company, Dodge Brothers Motor Car, doing just that.

Without the Dodge brothers, with both money and a car making facility, there never would have been a Ford Motor Company or the Model T.

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bg

04-09-2000 22:49:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Nolan, 04-07-2000 09:32:56  
The Dodge Bros. supplied parts for the Ford cars until they figured out ole Henry was doing a shuck-and-jive on them once he figured out vertical integration.



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Well told!

04-07-2000 11:08:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Nolan, 04-07-2000 09:32:56  
Nolan- Well told! Yes, old man Ford was a tyrant socially and suffered many flops on his way to success.

Let us point out here that the Model A most people now alive know, built between 1928 and 1931, was Ford's second trip thru the model letters alphabet! In '32 they did the 4 cylinder Model B, in '33 the 4 cylinder Model C, and the letters faded after that. The V-8 vehicles used number model IDs starting in 1932.

My question here- The 4 cylinder products may have retained, at least as internal nostalga, the letter series designations. Where did the N series designation come from? Ford used that little 4 banger N series tractor engine, or a variant, in some light trucks into the 40's.

A seeming paradox in his social tyrant image comes from his business genius and recognizing that products built and marketed to the masses could be fantastically successful. Hence the continual down pricing and expanding customer base of the Model T car. Also, Ford upset the industrial world with high wages and reduced hour work week.

The key to actually doing that with autos was his moving assembly line and the Highland Park assembly plant, which opened up around 1913.

He had some brilliant designs that were far ahead of their time. The "low tension" magneto, using 16 magnets mounted on the fwd side of the flywheel and a stator plate with 16 coils mounted on the back of the block is gonna see a re-birth soon.

Model T enthusiasts sometimes feed that output thru a diode and into a hidden 12 volt battery, so they can have modern accesories. Also, 12 volts fires up a Model T just great, maybe even better than it does an N tractor!

If old Henry had had high current solid state switches and controls available back then (same idea as "stepper motor" used in computer gadgets) I'm sure he'd have done that system as both a starter and very high output generator system...

Exactly that will probably be introduced by a Japanse car firm anytime now, possibly 120 volts DC. So much for crystal ball activity, have a good weekend! IHank

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Stoner(pa)

04-07-2000 10:23:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Nolan, 04-07-2000 09:32:56  
I just recently read a book "The Fords An American Epic" by Collier and Horowitz. This book helps to distinguish between the charm and myth of Henry and his family. It talks about the Dodge Brothers as you mentioned. Henry was ruthless and didn't care who he stepped on, or what credit he could claim even if it wasn't due him. He gets credit for the $5 a day wage. Actually he fought that and only gave in after a man named Couzens dared Henry to pay $5 a day. The book also reports that Adolf Hitler had a picture of Henry on his desk because he admired the way Henry ran his company and kept his employees in line. Some of this may or may not be true, but these guys go into a lot of detail to document their stories.

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Dr. F. Porsche in there?

04-07-2000 11:22:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Stoner(pa), 04-07-2000 10:23:53  
Stoner- Thanks for stirring my curiousity! Per chance, does that book tell about the part of Hitler's industrial development effort, when Germany supposedly sent Dr. F. Porsche to study Ford designs and production methodology, in the 1930's?

Porsche was hot to build the "people's car" and Ford's expertise with mass production and pioneering marketing to the low price end of a product market was part of what Germany needed.

Someday, take a look at a '37-'39 Ford passenger car, then a '50-'60 Volkswagen styling. Also, there were/are front end kits for Volkswagens that make 'em look like a 7/8 scale '37 Ford!

Lets face it, Ford was a Capitalist, first, last, and always. Please tell us more. IHank

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Stoner(pa)

04-07-2000 19:08:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Dr. F. Porsche in there?, 04-07-2000 11:22:21  
There is only one small reference to Porsche, and not in reference to your question. It is also interesting to note that Ford waged a viscous anti-semetic campaign through the late 20's and 30's, in the form of a news letter he published and sent out through his dealers. Dealers who refused to display it were threatened with the thought of having their dealership pulled. In 1938, on his 75th birthday, Ford accepted the Supreme Order of the German Eagle from an emissary of Hitler's. This was the highest honor any non-German could receive. The reason for this award was supposedly in recognition of Ford's contribution to mass production. However, many saw it as a reward for Ford's anti-semetic campaign. Ford dropped the campaign only when he was threatened with a serious law suit.

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I'm from memory...

04-07-2000 22:56:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Stoner(pa), 04-07-2000 19:08:07  
Stoner- Sir! I'm working from memory on these Ford history issues. My books and papers on this were lost in a personal tragededy some years ago.

I remember reading extensive tellings about a Porsche and Ford co-op efforts in the 1930s, to help Germany's efforts to re-build an industrial economy, long after World War I.

The big deal then was doing the "People's Car" project.

By modern measures old Henry would be judged a nut case, as to his political activities as expressed within his corporate activities.

One time in the teens he's a pacifist. Shortly after he's pumping spl production Model T Ford ambulances into World War I. The pattern of big swings can be seen easy now.

In World War II Ford did the "Will it run at Willow Run" program, for the US war effort. At the end, once they got thru a gadzillion problems, they were supposedly producing one B-24 bomber per hour! Yes, not flattering to modern acft firms.

After that the complex was sold off and some interesting automotive history stories resulted. Tucker and Kaiser-Fraiser are part of it.

Ford did all sorts of US military projects. Somebody surely can tell about their production of US Navy and Coast Guard craft.

Ford supposedly did an improved variant version of the British Rolls "Merlin" engine. Can't remember where it went, possibly the North American P-51 Mustang acft.

If Old Henry were issued a military "dog tag", it would probably read-

Name: Ford, Henry
Service #: US30071868
Blood type: Money Green
Religion: Capitalist

Yes, the old man and the company were "arm twisted" into many govt. projects. Their wisdom was that the company made at least a little money on 'em.

Adolf, Clyde Barrow, FDR, poor farmers, they were all customers...

A long telling, by somebody, needs to balance this, about his "Peace Ship" and humanitarian efforts during world conflicts and bad times.

IHank

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Stoner(pa)

04-08-2000 13:44:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to I'm from memory..., 04-07-2000 22:56:44  
I'll add one more thing, and then end this. You really need to read the book to get the big picture. As for Willow Run, Edsel,HenryII, Benson and Sorenson went to the west coast to see these bombers being built at the rate of one a day. They returned to Dearborn convinced that they could build them on an assembly line and guarantee 540 planes a month. They (Edsel etl)choose some land old Henry had at Willow Run, and staked the place out. Old Henry was furious, and went out and pulled the stakes out. This happened several times as I recall, before Edsel and Sorenson brought machinery with them and started to dig before he could pull the stakes out again! I have always ben fasinated with the story of the peace ship. Henry seemed to have his heart in the right place, but it was too little too late as far as the war was concerned. I wonder today if we wouldn't consider if he didn't have early on-set alzheimers disease. Some of the stories in this book make you see how the company survived "in spite" of Henry. If it would have been up to him, he would have been building Model T's in to the 1940's. It's no wonder Edsel died at a young age. The in- fighting in the company was incredible.

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04-08-2000 16:29:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to Stoner(pa), 04-08-2000 13:44:46  

lets not forget that he was anti jewish.



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And a long list of other stuff too

04-08-2000 18:27:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Henry Ford in reply to , 04-08-2000 16:29:19  
Yes, old man Ford railed on against the Jews and a long list of other issues too. My impression is that he didn't have much use for Catholics either. If you want you can see three legs of intolerance for others.

We all need to just "get over it". "The Office" (of Inquistion) is probably responsible for my last two living European ancestors (Hugenots?) getting the hell outta France around 1820. I now thank the "Catlickers" that I'm a 4th generation American!

Read Mitchner's "The Source" for perspective on all the stupidity.

Get over it, then be thankful and proud to be an American. IHank

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