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OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup?

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Andy - Hammond,

09-19-2001 17:13:35




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Local Toyota dealer wanted $755.00 for a basic tuneup on my 4runner. I WAS COMPLETELY LIVID.
This "extensive" tuneup included plugs, wires, rotor, cap and fan belt. I was so mad I almost strangled the guy who had the gall to ask me to pay that much. The first quote I got from them was a whopping $1160.00 - before I expressed my disapproval for their "pricing plans"

Wow --- I am so upset -- maybe I just don't like being treated like a fool. I went down and got the $66.00 worth of parts and I will do it myself and save about $700.00 -

I guess in that lies the moral of this story.

Andy

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OKcity8N

09-21-2001 06:21:45




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
I am finally letting my 89 Toyota Extended Cab 4x4 retire with 235,000 miles on it. It will still serve me well for 4x4ing and hauling. I have owned everything from Ford to Mercedes and have never received better value than with my Toy. The dealers for every one of the vehicles I have owned have always had extrordinary charges for services and parts. I found a mechanic to do what I cannot. Still expenive, but half the cost of the dealer. Toy dealer wanted $100 for a set of plug wires! Ford small trucks are made by Mazda. My new car, a 2001 Mazda 626-LX, is proudly made by the factory workers in that foreign country we call MICHIGAN. So, some of the money for these vehicles ends up in Japan. I bet the money they put in our workers' pockets means a lot more for the Americans who build them than what country owns the brand name. Don't let em get ya down, Andy. I am a proud American who owns Non-US brand vehicles. In case anyone should think I am not patriotic, I also did my first 22 years of adult life in the United States Air Force, defending my right to buy what I can afford.

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Jess 2N (MO)

09-20-2001 21:53:35




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Andy-- Be glad the dealership didn't have to put in a new dash cluster and lower ball joints.. if it weren't for the extended warranty on my '97 F150, that woulda cost me $1145. The warranty people are still denying the shift motor for the transfer case that the truck needs. With winter approaching, they actually said to call them when it goes completely out, and they'd tow it in to fix it. Might have been the $2300 that the dealership wants to fix it correctly. I'm afraid the tow bill will be close to the same price as the fix, as I do all my hunting kinda deep in the Ozarks, far far from any road... Jess 2N

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JimNC

09-20-2001 15:09:25




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
My boss wanted the guy's in the loggin' equipment shop I work at to do a tune up on his Ford Exscertion(sp?). Well I popped the hood and gasped with horror, slammed the hood shut and told him that we had no way to do the tune up. I did not see any plugs,plug wires,no ignition components anywhere. Took me 5 min to find the oil filter, remote mounted behind front bumper. Someone since has told me that this tune up costs about $550 that was just for the basics. My new GMC has a coil for each 8 cyl. and one 6 in wire for each. I suppose they aren't cheap either.

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Ray

09-20-2001 13:51:38




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
goshdarnnit Andy see what you started!!!! I have never seen the people on this board fight and argue like this...You guys have to remember that Andy is just expressing his anger about the gouging he almost took from an AMERICAN owned service company. Toyota or whoever doesnt set the labor rates at the dealerships the owners do, according to their costs and the greed/need for profits. GEEZ I thought the woman in my house were bad.

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Paul (WI)

09-20-2001 14:44:04




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Ray, 09-20-2001 13:51:38  
It is funny how these Japanese companies become American owned. I wonder how that happened over the years. Just think, in 10 or 20 years with enough subsidies and pay offs you can probably buy a vehicle with a Bin or Sadd badge and maybe someone could start a Bin - Sadd forum.



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Ray

09-21-2001 03:17:50




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Paul (WI), 09-20-2001 14:44:04  
What I meant is that these dealerships are nothing more than American owned gas stations that decided to carry another product line. The cars are floor planned by the local banks, they employ American citizens(for the most part), pay taxes and all that. These are our people making the decision to charge that kind of money for the service and hoping to get away with it. If we all stood up to them it wouldn't happen and not just in the automotive trade, but with all goods and services. Dont fall for the glossy ads and slick sales talk and then get upset with the hidden costs. Think ahead and put your money where it will do you the most good. That is your right as an American

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Jerry (AL)

09-20-2001 11:14:02




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Hey, this thread just reinforces that we are all FREE Americans. Everybody has their opinions and everybody has the God given right to express it.

I saw a article the other day that basically said that here in America we are prone to quarrel, argue, and from time to time be a "disagreeable sort" with each other. It's a lot like disagreements between siblings. I might have shoved my younger brother around when growing up, but I would fight if someone else did to defend him.

But, when something happens like happened at the WTC, we are all united and stand together and woe to those that oppose us as a country.

We just proved we are all true Americans.

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bg

09-20-2001 10:47:06




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
I took my old JOY compressor to Compressor Equipment in Wilson, NC, because I thought something was wrong with the air handler end. They installed "new" plugs(wrong ones), basically gave it a tune-up. Still wouldn't run right and they charged me $860+. I paid it, came home and proceeded to tear the engine down whre I found burned vales and collapsed valve springs. I fixed it for less than $150.00. I subsequently took them to small-claims court for fraud and deception. The magistrate threw it out for lack of evidence(buddy-buddies in his home county). They are incompetent and crooks to boot. Most "repair" places figure they'll get their money anyway. My brother took his small electric/hydraulic truck crane to a local hydraulic "expert" to have a larger cylinder installed. The guy charged him $2000 for some Etheopian Engineering and a $300 cylinder. I say do it yourself, if you can. But these new computerized vehicles sorta leave you helpless when it comes to major repairs.

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Scott Hansen

09-20-2001 10:14:11




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Andy, I thank my dad I learned early how to take care of my own stuff. I even stand right behind that kid who does the safety inspection on my beaters! Tune ups are easy. You'll do it once, and you'll never have to even ask for those kinds of ridiculous quotes again. I swear, sometimes I think some people just pop those out there to see if people are gullible. Some do it to women all the time. I'd send a letter to the BBB. Don't pay any attention to the few goofs who try to egg ya on.

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Scott Hansen

09-20-2001 10:20:53




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Scott Hansen, 09-20-2001 10:14:11  
BTW, congrats. You got this thread from tune ups, to foriegn economy, to hemp....pretty impressive.



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steve19438

09-20-2001 09:22:06




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
calm down and relax andy. there was a time when i would have loved to bait a guy like yourself, but anymore i find it boring. don't take everything so personal and don't respond to personal replys you consider mean and those people will just fade away!!!



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Danny in CO

09-20-2001 08:50:31




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Andy,

Just ignore those people that like to yank other people's chains. That's what they are after. They want to raise your blood pressure. You are providing a great service for us N tractor lovers with your ----- --web site. Don't let a few bad apples get under your skin.

I also agree that some dealers will rip you off any time they can. My local Ford dealer wanter $3300 to rebuild the transmission in my Aerostar. A local trans shop did it for $1700. Shop around.

Again thanks,
Danny

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Thanks for your support, Danny -

09-20-2001 09:07:35




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Danny in CO, 09-20-2001 08:50:31  



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Albert

09-20-2001 06:57:08




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
ANDY,,see if they have a E Mail address and publish it. I would bet they get a few E Mails about their pricing. Thanks Albert



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ricker2n

09-20-2001 06:15:54




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
No need to be a Hot-Head. Best thing is to shop elsewhere or do it yourself if ya ain't happy with the pricing. If you want to strangle someone, find a raghead. Things is gettin tuff enuff these days without any fightin amongst ourselves. We all need to stick together and show the rest of the world the United States is still the Land of the FREE and the Home of the Brave. Besides, if ya do the work yourself, look at the satisfaction you have about saving some money that you can spend on your tractor. I have learned to do my own repairs. A couple of years ago I had a transaxle go bad (defective internal component). All the shops wanted about $2500 or more to fix. It cost me about $200 and some time.
That's satisfaction. You can do it! You're an AMERICAN!

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Andy - Hammond, LA WHY IN THE HECK?

09-20-2001 06:24:41




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to ricker2n, 09-20-2001 06:15:54  
Why in the heck do I get told to not be a hot-head when I am the one that got attacked by these 3 anonymous posters???

Why are saying nothing to them? Oh, I see it is my fault a simple, non-aggressive post about my 4runner turns in a personal attack on me.

thanks for your support.



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Larry R 8n

09-20-2001 04:55:35




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Andy That sounds like a complete ripoff and more power to you if you can do the tuneup yourself as todays vehicles do not have a whole lot to the tuneup ,being that they are computerized:no timing to adjust ,no points to change etc. Good Luck Larry Renaldi



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Check archives!

09-19-2001 19:06:40




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Did you check the archives to see if their was anyone else completely livid about their Toyota



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Hey why don't you show up at the tractor party and talk your stuff in person, wisea$$

09-19-2001 19:10:13




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Check archives!, 09-19-2001 19:06:40  



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Brad Bastrop,Texas

09-20-2001 05:46:18




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Hey why don't you show up at the tractor party and talk your stuff in person, wisea$$, 09-19-2001 19:10:13  
Calm down and do not try to pick a fight for the upcoming party. There is enough tension right now every where. Remember there is always someone tougher than you, trust me I learned the hard way....

Brad



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Andy - Hammond, La

09-20-2001 06:22:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Brad Bastrop,Texas, 09-20-2001 05:46:18  
Brad, I never intended to start anything. If you will notice I was attacked 3 times from my original quiet & conversational "$750 tuneup post"
First by the Buy Amarican AutoZone post, then the "Why don't you check the archives" post and then the "This is not a Toyota forum" - all posted anonymously by a bunch of weak people.

If you have something to say about my OT post, then fine say it. If you want to tell me to "Buy American" then fine, say it. If you want to jab me in the side with the "Check the Archives" then fine. But don't sit back and post these argumentative statements anonymously because you don't have the balls to step forward with your name. In fact Ed Gooding made these types of statements about anonymous posters just recently as well. I find it funny that people jump on me about this thread and not on the 3 people who started the feud to begin with. I guess I know where my friends lie around here.

And I will continue to say whatever I want as long I am being disrespected and mistreated for no reason. I did not ask for this. I try to help out and offer my support and resources to all of those here on the forum. For this, I get sucker punched and attacked personally? Do you think if anyone else posted this same message, would they have been slandered in such a way? If any of you care to inform me on what I am doing that causes this type of attack, please email me in private and I will maintain my respect and confidence to you - guaranteed.

Remember I didn't start this feud but I can find out just have far they want to push it. Thanks for your concern about the party - maybe you should tell these anonymous posters something too. Think about it.

Andy

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Brad Bastrop,Texas

09-20-2001 08:45:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, La, 09-20-2001 06:22:50  
It is not you personally, I think it is the way you say things at times. We all need to stick together. If you have anything else you want to say shoot me some mail.

Brad



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x

09-19-2001 19:00:50




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
I thought that this was a Ford discussion board not Toyota.



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That is why I posted it as OT:

09-19-2001 19:24:20




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to x, 09-19-2001 19:00:50  



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tlak

09-19-2001 18:25:12




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
You ought to advertise Toy tune ups $500. If you do a couple a week you could retire. Or just farm them out to a local garage that charges a fair price. I figure if they double the price on parts $132 then charge an hour or two at the high end of shop labor $100hr? you only come up with a $332 bill. A friend worked at a dealership and when he worked on cars that people brought in by the maintenace schedule he would check the oil and brake fluid and walk around it for the rest of the morning because a car at 15000 miles doesnt need a whole lot.

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By Amarican!

09-19-2001 18:06:17




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 Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Andy - Hammond, LA, 09-19-2001 17:13:35  
Let me gess, you went to Auto Zone and got some no name parts, made in another country!



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Jim WI

09-20-2001 10:22:22




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  
As I work for a company that exports a huge amount of stuff, I wince every time this subject comes up.

If other countries behaved the way you advocate us doing, I wouldn't have the good job I do now.



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Tom Anderson

09-19-2001 19:14:41




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  
WHAT THE FVCK? YOU CAN'T EVEN SPELL AMERICAN? GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY, TOWELHEAD!!! OR BRING IT TO THE TRACTOR MEET!!! BUT DON'T STAND STILL TOO LONG, MY SCOPE DOESN'T MISS UNDER 1000 FEET. IS YOUR TURBAN ON TO TIGHT? I GOT YOUR BACK, Andy...



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Let me gess? You didn't finish Amarican kindergrtn?

09-19-2001 19:14:35




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  



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Pete

09-19-2001 18:54:18




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  
OK how about an American Truck story. My little brother took his 1996 Ford Ranger to the dealership for a brake problem (neglect), they wanted $670.00 to replace 2 rotors, 2 sets of pads, 2 calipers, and 2 hoses. I took him to Autozone where he bought "no name" lifetime guaranteed parts for about $180.00, 1 six pack of Genny Cream Ale, 1 liter of Captain Morgan Rum, and a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi, and he saved about $450.00, I lost about 2 hrs, but had fun hangin' and drinkin' with him so we we're all happy..... ..and since NO ONE makes a tractor under 80hp in the US of A, anymore, where do you buy you tractors? Oh by the way, after many years of disatisfaction with Dodge and Ford trucks, I am happily cruising into my 6th trouble free year in my second Nissan 4wd stretch cab! Pete

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tlak

09-19-2001 18:36:00




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  
I dont think any car is totally american made. Most of your electronics are asian. Probably all the metal is forigen. Then your car makers arent even loyal to the brand, mixing engines in the GM products and sending work to Mexico.



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Paul Thicke

09-19-2001 18:35:33




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 Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to By Amarican!, 09-19-2001 18:06:17  
It is too late to buy American. They already have their vehicle factories over here and every one thinks that they are a wonderful gift. But where do the profits go? I wouldn't have one in my yard.



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Gumbo McGhee

09-19-2001 19:21:30




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Paul Thicke, 09-19-2001 18:35:33  
What are you talking about? Profits? Where do you think they go? In your bank account? I'll bet you really work hard in life. What would you do with your profits? Give them away?!?!



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Paul Thicke

09-19-2001 19:48:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Gumbo McGhee, 09-19-2001 19:21:30  
You darn right I worked hard all my life. As for the profits they go over seas. Do you think that they are doing it for our good. These foreign goods all started way back with the TV and electronics. They would subsidize their product so it would sell at a very low price and keep on until the others couldn't compete. Then they had the whole ball game to themselves. The same thing happened in the auto industry. I forgot to mention the pay offs to get this stuff working. We have it happening at the place where I work right now . They are undercutting our prices. When we fold, The employees will get free help from the government, and then offer free land and training to the foreign firm. Guess whose pocket that is coming out of?

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Robert in Al.

09-19-2001 21:00:39




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Yet another wiseA$$ with not enough balls to leave his name, 09-19-2001 18:21:46  
Guy's, we can fuss and bicker all day long, and not do ourselves any good. I used to think the same way, that I will drive or buy what ever I won't. Hey it's my money right,I should be able to do with it as I please. And yes I have owned 3 toyota's in the past and they are great trucks. I used to work in a paper mill owned by Champion Inter. and International Paper has recently bought us out. and laid me off.

I saw the way the paper Industry was affected by the Global Market. I saw the profits of Champion go down, because they could not sell the paper as cheap as the foreign market's could. It cost Champion about $40 a ton (of paper)more to ship there paper(by truck)to the docks in Mobile Al., than the foreign company's could ship (by ship) their paper from overseas. This was an eye opener for me. I saw our paper sitting on the shelves at various stores .

So maybe what I am trying to say is always try and buy American. We can't always do that though. But if we Americans don't support ourselves than who will. So buy that Dodge or ford or Chevy and help keep your neighbor working.He might be the one that shops at your store or marries your son or daughter. This is a real good time for us as Americans to support WHO!!!!! !! ourselves.
Think about it a little bit it makes real good sense.


Help Keep Our Money At Home

Robert unemployed with a college education
in Al.

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Jerry (AL)

09-20-2001 10:13:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Robert in Al., 09-19-2001 21:00:39  
Buy American why we still can find something made in America to buy.

The trade deficit is astronomical.

Look at the Japanese. They are expert's in dumping. They dumped steel in the US. The US stopped it. They then dumped steel fasteners in the US. The US stopped it. Now they dump automobiles in the US. It is a well known fact that the same automobile is sold in Japan at a higher selling price in US dollars than they cost here. The Japanese had rather support an industry than deal with unemployment.

The company where I work sells MGO, the insulating powder that goes in heating elements. We now have two new threats. One is NAFTA generated where we have to compete with a Mexican company that pays their workers $2 an hour with no benefits where this unionized company is Paying $14 with a 50% benefits cost. The other threat is from China where their employees make $1 per day and keep living in dormatories and eating 2 meals of bread and rice a day.

I own GM vehicles. But the honest truth is you might be lucky to get 150,000 miles out of an engine where the foreign made cars might give you 250,000. Yes, we live in a free country where everyone can take their own money and drive what they wish to drive. But, if we don't start supporting our our fellow US citizens, where are we going to be able to work to make our own money doown the road.

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Salmoneye

09-20-2001 04:26:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Robert in Al., 09-19-2001 21:00:39  
"Help keep our money at home"...

Then tell our government to stay out of the Sovereign Indian Nations and let them grow Industrial Hemp.
You want cheap paper pulp?
Trees take too darn long.
Look into hemp...The rest of the world knows...

And no...I don't mean Pot...

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paul

09-20-2001 05:12:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Salmoneye, 09-20-2001 04:26:27  
Unfortunately hemp will never get in until the potheads of the world, such as Woody Harrelson, get out of the movement. It's just too much 'fun' for them to latch onto hemp, and ruins the image for all.

Also, I've heard a little too much about how hemp will save all the world's troubles, has no pests, needs no fertilizer, etc. etc. etc. Seems just a _little_ too good to be true. Let's be realistic in promoting it. Any mass-grown crop needs nutrients from the soil, has disease & weed pressures. Cotton is in a serious downward spiral the past couple of decades, I wonder about the success of any other fiber crop. I'm sure it would have some small nitche, but not to the extent some see.

As I'm drowning in a sea of corn & soybeans, I'm all for an alternative crop that helps split up our current crops.

--->Paul

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Jim WI

09-20-2001 10:10:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to paul, 09-20-2001 05:12:53  
Your comments are certainly realistic -- there has been a lot of exaggeration on this subject.

On the other hand, given that hemp grows wild all over Wisconsin (spread at least partly from extensive cultivation for rope before it was banned), one has to wonder if it wouldn't be easier to grow than cotton, tobacco or corn (when was the last time you saw a field infested with any of those three).

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paul

09-20-2001 18:50:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Jim WI, 09-20-2001 10:10:43  
My aching arms require that I reply, altho I do agree with you. :)

Do you plant a corn/ soybean rotation? Before chemicals??? Ever pull volinteer corn out of beans????? Ohhhhh..... One neighbor had it si bad the migrating workers quit & left, he ended up cutting that 'bean' field for silage, not the only time I heard of that.

Neighbor has a lot of 'weed' hemp in his pasture, it does grow easy & big! :)

--->Paul

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bg

09-20-2001 09:23:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to paul, 09-20-2001 05:12:53  
Hemp was legal until after WWII, when we no longer needed rope due to no war and synthetic fibers. We need an alternate crop for tobacco and hogs. The PC environmentalist and health-wackos have taken away the livlihood of Southern farmers. Used to be that a farm with 10-25 acres of tobacco and several hundred hogs could provide a decent living for a family. Now farmers have to sell off road frontage for mobile home lots so they can farm for another year. Don't know what will happen when the land is totally covered by mobile homes....

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tlak

09-20-2001 09:43:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to bg, 09-20-2001 09:23:10  
What are "health-wackos"? Is it bad to try to be healthy? Just curious.



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Jim WI

09-20-2001 10:20:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to tlak, 09-20-2001 09:43:45  
It's not a bad thing to want to be healthy but there are a lot of "health-wacko" ideas and regulations. To me, a "health-wacko" has hold of a part of the truth but then stretches it to fit all situations.

Coal-fired power plants emit WAY more radiation than fission power plant are permitted.

"Natural" and "Organic" are thought to automatically be safe while "Pesticides" and "Fertilizers" are automatically BAD. (e.g.; Alar, some health-foods and supplements)

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tlak

09-20-2001 12:04:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Jim WI, 09-20-2001 10:20:25  
A lot of big businesses were exempt from polution regulations (factories, diesel trucks)for whatever reason but are now being pulled into the loop. so whatever HW brought this about, good for them. I think how much polution a coal plant puts out will be based on how much the president and congress push back polution goals. I think the nuclear plants took a back seat with seven mile island and probably will from now on with terrorism. A coal plant if hit will put the lights out but a nuclear plant might put the lights out permanent. On the organic and natural it has been smaller farms producing this and in the process of getting a certification program started nation wide. In producing organic your crop loss is higher because of lack of pesticides. So big business wants to get in the market but they want it both ways they want to call it organic and still use the pesticides. so as you said organic and natural may not be as healthy as claimed because big business doesnt care about your health just your money.

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Dave in Mo

09-20-2001 13:04:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to tlak, 09-20-2001 12:04:55  
I don't think nuclear power is that bad. Three Mile island was safer than Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile. "No one died at T.M.I." Besides, weapon grade material in not used in U.S. power plants. The blast that occurred in Russia years ago was a steam explosion that blew the roof off the reactor building and spread radioactive waste around.



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Jim WI

09-21-2001 10:27:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: I am livid! $755.00 for a basic truck tuneup? in reply to Dave in Mo, 09-20-2001 13:04:15  
And that reactor had no containment vessel like is required in the US. One of the design requirements for US reactors is to withstand an airliner crash.



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