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Two more tractor related deaths

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rod

04-09-2000 07:13:37




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In a few days here in Nova Scotia two men have been killed in separate accidents one an 84 year old that the tractor flipped and crushed and another fellow when a small bridge he was crossing apparently the load shifted and he slid into water and tractor pinned him under. Our new ROPS law may not be such a bad idea.

playsafe

rod




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Trac

10-02-2000 13:03:38




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 Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rod, 04-09-2000 07:13:37  
I saw that you referred to a new ROPS law in Nova Scotia. Is there a site where I can look at that law?



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Can't outlaw stupidity!

04-09-2000 20:06:47




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 Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rod, 04-09-2000 07:13:37  
Lots of good posts here! One very important thing, that cannot be argued against, is that stupidity cannot be legislated away.

All these laws seem to do is run up the cost of it and create "economic opportunity" for people on the side lines.

Like that old Frank S. song sez- "Everybody has a right to be wrong...". Or, at least they used to! IHank



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tlak

04-09-2000 20:24:26




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 Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Can't outlaw stupidity!, 04-09-2000 20:06:47  
Right, but all these people that are killed arent stupid. In the area I farm in you are always going up hill or down. So the day it gets you are you mowing the same hill you have mowed before, is the grass a little bit wetter or is there a hole there now cover by grass.



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Evolution in action?

04-09-2000 21:50:02




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to tlak, 04-09-2000 20:24:26  
tlac- Sir! If it ain't stupidity it must be the Law of Natural Selection working...

I got about 25 acres of gullies and brush and about 12 acres of flat farm land. The flat land gets tilled and equipment run around on it. The rest is kept off of by machinery.

Anybody that operates equipment on a hillside is asking for a disaster. Stupidity, or give it any name you wish, tillage and equipment operations are just plain (insert your term here). We know the outcome, but not when!

I'm lately seeing it in a perspective as maybe Nature's way of culling the gene pool of the idiots that cause severe soil erosion problems.

Please, think it thru, IHank

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tim[in]

04-09-2000 19:16:11




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 Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rod, 04-09-2000 07:13:37  
i wouldnt mind having roll bars on my tractors,but i need them to be the ones that fold so i can get into low buildings with a loader and work in around trees and not interfere with mounted equipment. i think they are priced way too high too especially since some of them are just one peice of steel bent in a U shape ! but would still like to have them for the saftey at a reasonable price!



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Dave 50 8N

04-10-2000 07:34:09




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 Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to tim[in], 04-09-2000 19:16:11  
With the rops I have, my N is 7' tall at the top of the hoop. If I ever get my garage past the foundation stage, plans call for a 9' door on one side.

I understand re: cost. But being the N rookie I am, I considered the cost another form of life/disability insurance. It's not foolproof, obviously (read: wear seatbelt and heed operation safety warnings from these guys on yt), but I thought the cost small compared to an injury that might have been prevented w/ a rops. It doesn't take long to run up $400-500 in lost wages. And I don't heal so quick anymore.

I've seen talk on this board re homemade rops, too.

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tlak

04-09-2000 08:56:36




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 Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rod, 04-09-2000 07:13:37  
States have different and varied ROPS programs. Some have a cash rebate on adding ROPS. Varies between states and tractors $50-$150. Check with your local tractor dealer, I was told you can buy at cost $700 and they will install free(New Holland). Also put the word out to the Co extension agent that you want this type of program or rebate if they dont have it.



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Good Idea...BUT! :Kim Hartshorn

04-09-2000 19:02:22




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 Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to tlak, 04-09-2000 08:56:36  
I really, really have a hard time believing that there is $700 worth of cost in a ROPS. Even if each one had to be custom made and shipped individually there's got to be less than $30 worth of steel, two passes through a tubing bender, ten minutes of welding and shipping, which if shipped with even 1 other piece of heavy equipment has got to be negligible. If this program was REALLY at cost it would be great, I cant help but feel that the COST is set in order to discourage a logistical headache that the manufacturers and dealers just dont want to have to deal with. Imagine New Holland having to deal with the possibility of having to provide ROPS for the Fordson F!

fwiw Kim Hartshorn

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Price that steel - llamas

04-10-2000 09:20:06




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Good Idea...BUT! :Kim Hartshorn, 04-09-2000 19:02:22  
I would estimate that the ROPS sold by FNH for the N has a manufacturing cost around $150. That's the steel, the cutting and bending, brackets and such, welding, couple coats of paint, and some overhead. I'd guess they make maybe a thousand a month - just my guess.

Now they have to ship it to the dealer, carry stock in inventory, the dealer has to carry it, more overhead for all concerned. Liability premiums or allowance, &c, &c, &c. Their cost on the dealer's floor might be $250-$300.

Last I checked, I think that they were asking $450-odd for this. Maybe there's some unmentioned profit for someone, but I don't think it's in the proportion you suspect.

llater,

llamas

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Dave 50 8N

04-10-2000 12:12:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Price that steel - llamas, 04-10-2000 09:20:06  
Then there's that nifty retractable seatbelt assembly. Ditto all the above type of costs for the belt. I doubt Saf-T Cab makes the belts, so the wholesale costs (+ overhead, etc.) of the belts are factored in.

Figure in state tax on the rops and shipping to your place. It gets up there real fast.

Then there's the labor for installing it: cheeseburger.

I was told the rops are sold to me at cost, which is the cost to manufacture it..this includes labor. I got mine through the manufacturer because it wasn't worth it to the dealer to order and get it shipped up my ways and handle it all for no charge.

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Kim Hartshorn

04-10-2000 10:07:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Price that steel - llamas, 04-10-2000 09:20:06  
The cost for the ROPS for the Ford 1500 compact was in the 700-1000 range. The $700 cost was with the FNH rebate...the rops is manufactured by Saf-T-Cab and sold retail for over $1000

The Ford 1500 is a much smaller tractor than the N and actually had in later models a stock rops.

If you check the Saf-T-Cab site there seems to be no particular reason for the pricing of the units except perhaps demand.

I still find it hard to believe that the major manufacturers would not make out ahead on insurance premiums by making ROPS much less expensive.

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tlak

04-09-2000 20:09:15




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Good Idea...BUT! :Kim Hartshorn, 04-09-2000 19:02:22  
I agree with you the price is probably gouging and I havent purchased it. Also saw a list of rops prices by tractor make and model and the kubuta(sp) was cheap at $200 which with the rebate would be preaty good. The other progams from the states was an article in progessive farmer and the particular state I remember is viginia having the rebate progarm. If they where really going to do something about the deaths they would come up with a substantial rebate progarm. As for the gov being involved and telling you what to do, they probably dont have anything to do with it when you buckle up or put on that helmet. Every car manufacture has been held resposible for their product(pintos,chevy fuel tanks,corvair)maybe Nader should take up tractors.

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Jim WI

04-10-2000 10:27:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to tlak, 04-09-2000 20:09:15  
"As for the gov being involved and telling you what to do, they probably dont have anything to do with it when you buckle up or put on that helmet."

Where have you been since 1960?

Government-required seat belts installed in cars.

Government-required air-bags installed in cars.

Now we even have fines if you don't wear the seat belts.

Government has been involved in this process for a long time.

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tlak

04-10-2000 10:52:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Jim WI, 04-10-2000 10:27:38  
Obviously you missed the facetiousness of my comment.



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rob

04-09-2000 19:33:58




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Good Idea...BUT! :Kim Hartshorn, 04-09-2000 19:02:22  
what are you thinking? do you really believe that in todays world it's the steel or labor you are paying for? check out the yellow pages under attorney. if eb finds grandma under the steering wheel of the old trusted ford, he ain't calling 911, he's screaming for the nearest lawyer.
rob



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Sorta kinda my point

04-09-2000 20:04:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rob, 04-09-2000 19:33:58  
Well that's sort-a-kinda-a my point. It seems to me like the insurance comapnies would be screaming for the manufacturers to be giving these away...especiallly given statistics like I have read like "no tractor fatalties in rollover accidents involving rops equipped tractors in NY"

and especially since the manufacturers are participating in rops programs of some kinds that seems to imply that they are aware of the safety factor involved in a rops. Seems to me they could more likely be sued BECAUSE they are not supplying them at low cost...than because of the slight possibility of a rops failure.

IMHO Kim Hartshorn

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Claus

04-09-2000 08:39:49




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 Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to rod, 04-09-2000 07:13:37  
ROPS certainly is a preventative measure whose time has come. Years ago, People thought differently about safety.. They accepted a certain number of casualties as a way of life. Today, the paradigm is that all accidents are preventable. As I was taught, the word accident is a misnomer. We thought about accidents to be "An unplanned incident with unpleaseant consequences."
Happy and Safe Motoring
Claus

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Nolan

04-11-2000 11:57:54




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 Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Claus, 04-09-2000 08:39:49  
That may well be the paradigm of the times, but it does not make it real, accurate, or obtainable. Engineers today, as then, know failures will happen.

Fwiw, a ROPS on my tractor would immediately render it useless. Orchards and ROPS do not go together.



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Tom WY

04-09-2000 10:56:17




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 Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Claus, 04-09-2000 08:39:49  
Do we actually NEED a LAW to make us "play safe"??
ROPS are wonderful devices. I have one in my racecar and am quite comfortable knowing it is "on standby". I just dont think we need somebody to tell us whats good for us.
I do think the voluntary ROPS rebate deal is a GREAT incentive program, and I encourage all to participate.
imho....



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Michael Barnett

04-09-2000 11:32:20




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Tom WY, 04-09-2000 10:56:17  
Tom, no we don't need these politicians telling us whats good for us. When they start legislating these laws, where will they stop?



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Claus

04-09-2000 11:04:53




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 Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Tom WY, 04-09-2000 10:56:17  
I am a Libertarian and that is not a question you would ask of a Libertarian. As long as my actions do not cause risk or harm to others. Then it should not be legislated.
Happy Whatever
Claus



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Hilltopper

04-09-2000 11:58:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: two more tractor related deaths in reply to Claus, 04-09-2000 11:04:53  
I suppose they will recquire airbags in 57 Chevys,too.



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