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N crank seals...any way to really seal them?

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Pete

12-03-2001 16:32:42

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Two years ago when we started the project, a '46 2N, (and I hope the guy that refuses to recognize the existence of 2N's doesn't read this and start in again!) we replaced both the front and rear main seals, since I didn't remove the crank, and had to "sneak" the uppers around it, I wasn't too awfully surprised when they continued to leak. I figured that the seals stretched while being pulled through. Recently, the volume of oil leaking out was enough that the clutch got covered and eventually began to stick. This time the crank came out, got turned, new bearings...started her up yesterday and she runs like a charm, but guess what! Rear main still leaks! Yes I soaked the seal prior to installation. The amount is approximately a 3 inch puddle overnight. I cannot believe that rope seal would wear a crank to the point that it would cause leakage? Has anyone else had this problem, or found a way to stop it? Thanks, Pete

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Pete

12-04-2001 17:55:58

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Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to Pete, 12-03-2001 16:32:42

Thanks for all the input guys, it could be the tranny input shaft although it didn't appear to be leaking when we checked during the split. The Sherman was leaking a little, but we resealed that. If it were the tranny, wouldn't the leak be coming from the hole back in the torque tube rather than the on in the bell housing under the flywheel? I did seal the seal retainer with hi-temp perma-tex, (it wasn't done the time prior to this one.) The good news is that last night we ran her a little, and then back in the garage, she leaked very little, and then stopped, much less than after first start up...hoping! Next step will be the TO-20 fix. Thanks again, I'll keep ya all posted. Pete

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ZANE

12-03-2001 20:39:18

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Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to Pete, 12-03-2001 16:32:42

I don't know where people come up with stuff like soaking the main bearing seals????? I have installed a hundred or two over the year and the only thing I ever did was put a coating of oil on it before laying in the crankshaft or main beaing cap. I don't recall having a leaker if the mains were not bad. I alway leave a little of the seal above the deck of the block and cap. About 1/16" I guess. Cut with a pocket knife if it sticks up too much. Most to the time I didn't have to cut them at all when using genuine Ford seals.Unless you want to remove the crankshaft don�t even think about trying to remove the upper main bearing seal on the N engine.

There is a better way to fix it if it really needs fixing. First the rear main bearing itself must be in good condition or trying to fix the rear seal is just a practice in futility.

If the rear main bearing is OK you should first remove the hood tank and the front axle and radiator etc. This will give you ample room to drop the pan. This will save much wailing and knashing of teeth! Obtain an original rear main bearing seal kit for the Ferguson TO 20 engine. This consists of a bottom seal similar to the one used on the N engine and a big ball of cotton roping. Cotton Roping is what a big cotton thread looks like before it is twisted in the cotton mill.

Using a soft welding rod of about 5/32� start packing the cotton roping into the upper seal. Don�t try to remove any of the original upper seal but pack all of the roping you can get into the upper seal slot. The old seal will be compacted and fill any void that is in the upper seal.

Replace the lower half of the seal with an original N seal. Don�t worry about the different colors on the ends of the seal if it matters I haven�t been able to find out what it is in the last 40 years.

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Pete

12-04-2001 03:35:28

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Re: Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to ZANE, 12-03-2001 20:39:18

Zane, Thanks, I will try the to-20 fix, the crank was turned, and it has the proper size brand new main bearings, (supplied by the shop that cut the crank.) The "soaking" was in the instructions in both the original Ford service manual, and the IT manual, both say to soak them in engine oil for at least 2 hours prior to installation. One question that comes to mind is: could they be so saturated with oil that I am now seeing the oil being squeezed out of them now that the crank is putting pressure on them? If this is the case, maybe it'll stop sooner or later? My concern is the clutch, a little leakage doesn't bother me in and of itself as we find uses for all of our tractors as much as we show 'em, but splitting it to clean or replace the clutch every couple years when it gets gummed up seems like a real drag and interferes with the new projects we are constantly doing. Thanks again. Pete

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ZANE

12-04-2001 04:41:13

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Re: Re: Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to Pete, 12-04-2001 03:35:28

I doubt that the soaking the seals would cause a leak large enough to make a discerable leak or a puddle on the floor.

Are you sure that it is not the transmission input shaft seal leaking? I would look at that possibility and be sure that the transmission/lift/differential is not over full. Overfull can cause all sorts of leaks on the N tractor.

If you do decide to try the TO 20 seal fix just be sure that you do not score the surface of the crankshaft. Slightly bevel the edges of the soft metal rod you use to do the packing and stay away from the crank all you can. A nick on the crank will quickly eat away any improvement in the fit of the new seal if the crank is nicked.

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Mike OH

12-04-2001 07:54:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to ZANE, 12-04-2001 04:41:13

I should have taken Zane's advice when I tried to change my rear upper seal. Someone told me to remove the retainer, install the seal in it and then replace the retainer without dropping the crank. Well, it came out ok, but I cracked it trying to put it back in. Still haven't got the new one in, cause I keep getting side tracked, but I think it may be possible for the retainer to leak if it is not sealed in the block. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it is possible, and may be where your leak is coming from.

Mike OH
'52 8N 515797

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TimK

12-04-2001 07:45:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: N crank seals...any way to really seal them? in reply to ZANE, 12-04-2001 04:41:13

Just a comment, but I rebuilt my 2N a few years ago and discovered that the rear seal leak was from the rear seal retainer ring which was not permatexed at all during the last rebuild by a previous owner. Ya gots to make sure that the retainer ring is sealed well or it may leak like mine did regardless of how good the rope seal is. My $.02.

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