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Condenser wiring
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Do I have to take the distributor apart again?

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Paul in forsyth

12-16-2001 05:42:39




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I was reading the I&T manual and noticed something a bit different from my tractor.
On my tractor the condenser is wired to the end of the points, the top of the breaker arm spring.
In the manual it shows the condenser wired to the top screw - where the coil makes contact.
Does this make a difference?
What does a condenser condense?




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depends . . . Dell (WA)

12-16-2001 08:41:39




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 Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to Paul in forsyth, ga, 12-16-2001 05:42:39  
Paul..... ..the "condenser" condenses the surge of electrons that occours when any electrical circuit with an inductive load (coil) is "opened" that would otherwize cause a spark between the two contacts and burn and pit them. ref: Electrical Theory 101.

Electrically speaking, it doesn't really matter where the condenser is physically connected (as long as it is close to the contacts being protected.

Myself, I would hook the frontmount condenser to the top post like pictured in the I&T FO-4 manual because the #8 terminal hole is too wide for the #6 screw on the ignition arm spring and you stand a bigger chance of shorting out the contacts and then you'll stand around wondering why you can't get any sparkies..... ...Dell

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Claus

12-16-2001 11:34:09




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 Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to depends . . . Dell (WA), 12-16-2001 08:41:39  
No modern text book will describe the action that takes place in a capacitor as "Condensing anything" A capacitor will store a charge in proportion to the emf and capacity of the capacitor. A capacitor will store a difference of 1 coulomb (6.25 X 10 18) electrons when an emf of 1 V is applied and it has 1 Farad of capacitance. (Nothing is being condensed here.) Happy Motoring
Claus

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perhaps . . . Dell (WA)

12-16-2001 18:38:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to Claus, 12-16-2001 11:34:09  
Claus..... ..perhaps I should have used the word "assorbs" instead of "condenses" the surge of electrons in an inductive load when current flow is interuped by opening the ignition points?

As you know, electrons are rather lazy things and would rather travel in a friendly metalic conductor than jump an air gap. But they'll jump a gap if'n they have enuff emf. By sucking all the electrons into the metalic plate of the capacitor, they don't have enuff coulombs left to jump the points gap and burn 'em.

Was just trying to simply answer the question: "what does a condenser condense?" Which is along the likes of the retorical questions of "what does a generator gen?" or "what does a carburator carb?" or "how does a battery bat?" or "how does a piston work?"..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Dan

12-16-2001 10:59:25




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 Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to depends . . . Dell (WA), 12-16-2001 08:41:39  
Well well,Dell .

The term' condenser' was coined long before the theory of it was understood . It is now properly called a 'Capacitor '.

When the points are closed -- it is effectively out of the circuit --shorted out .

When the points 'open ' the magnetic field that was produced in the primary of the coil, collapses .

This collapsing magnetic field , produces a current in the secondary coil -- the high tension coil. Since there are many ,many more turns in the secondary coilthan the primary, a higher voltage is produced

The Capacitor is now switched into the circuit with the opening of the points and provides a 'ground'for the high tension coil . It in effect shorts out the points for this secondary circuit . The circuit is then --the coil secondary (current source) , the spark plug gap and the capacitor .

At this time ,there is no current from the battery.

To have any other "theories" on this very simple circuit , is very misleading and fraught with error .Lets get it straight .

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uh . . . Dell (WA)

12-16-2001 20:47:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to Dan, 12-16-2001 10:59:25  
Dan..... ...capacitor...condenser.....as ol'Willie Shakespear is attributed to have said: "A rose by any other name would still smell the same".

Perhaps I should have used the word "assorbs" instead of "condenses" the surge of electrons in an inductive load when current flow is interuped by opening the ignition points?

And we all know how long the points will last without a condensing capacitor across 'em.

Was just trying to simply answer the question: "what does a condenser condense?" Which is along the likes of the retorical questions of "what does a generator gen?" or "what does a carburator carb?" or "how does a battery bat?" or "how does a piston work?"..... ....respectfully, Dell, who really does know how the Kettering ignition system works

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Dan

12-20-2001 07:46:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to uh . . . Dell (WA), 12-16-2001 20:47:36  
What is "assorbs"

AND YOU ARE STILL ALL WET !!!!! !!!

You may want to know ----- --- I taught Electricity / Electronics for 10 years in high school a nd Industrial Electronics for Instrument Union and Electrical Unions .

I don't need a two - bit know-it all to 'corect 'me .



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Claus

12-16-2001 05:59:19




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 Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to Paul in forsyth, ga, 12-16-2001 05:42:39  
The two attachment points you describe are the same electrical connection. The condenser does not condense anything. Actually, the name of the device changed about 40 years ago to capacitor. For some reason, automotive people did not adapt the new name. A capacitor is an electrical device that has two plates seperated by an insulator called a dielectric. The capacitor helps prevent the points from arcing when they open. Happy Motoring
Claus

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bjt

12-16-2001 08:07:48




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 Re: Re: Condenser wiring - Do I have to take the distributor apart again? in reply to Claus, 12-16-2001 05:59:19  
Although Claus has answered the important question, there is an opportunity for a safety tip here:

The "correct" name for the device is "capacitor", as Claus mentioned. What it *does* is described rather poorly by both names. It stores or "condenses" electrical energy up to a desired level (it's "capacity") and then discharges it all at once. As you might expect, these things come in all sizes, which leads us to today's safety tip.

Warning! - Shorting between the terminals (or between the body and the lead for capacitors commonly found in breaker or "points" type ignition circuits) of a capacitor or "condenser" or "can" may cause the sudden release of electrical energy stored in the device. This can give you a nasty shock, even if the circuit is disconnected from the battery.

bjt

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