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8N No spark

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Owney

01-05-2002 11:52:46




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I have an 8N just converted to 12 volts. I have power to the coil, but no spark to the plugs. I have replaced the condenser, points, rotor, distributor cap, put in a 12 volt coil, and followed the wiring directions exactly. What could be the problem?




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Owney

01-05-2002 15:02:50




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 Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-05-2002 11:52:46  
More info for Dell. I checked for continuity just to make sure the points were closing properly. I took the coil off of the dist.,but left the wire connected. The spring terminal that goes to the distributor(condenser lead) has about 11 volts. The tab that goes to the dist. cap has about 8.5 volts. I only have a cheap multimeter, so these are the best readings I can get. Could a B.O. condenser be the problem? Just because it is new doesn't mean it is good. Is there any way to test a condenser? (Be specific, I'm not very electrically talented) Thanks

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Dell (WA)

01-05-2002 22:16:47




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 Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-05-2002 15:02:50  
Owney..... ..condensors or capacitors (eather word is for same electronic device) are 2 metalic foil conductors separated by a very thin insulator and rolled up to be convient to handle. There are a lott of ways to technically describe a capacitor but one of the tech specs is voltage rating. ie...too much volts and the electrons are gonna jump right thru that thin insulator and short/burn out that condensor. When that happens, the capicitor is trashed and nolonger performs its job.

Keep that in mind. Your tractors ignition condersor was originally specified for a 6 volt system and now you have a 12 volt system. Does that mean your capacitor is trashed? NO! Your capacitor was probably spec'd for 200 vdc. So guess what? not a problem when converting to 12 volts.

But remember when I told you that the condensor consists of 2 metalic foil separated by a very thin insulator? Well, very occasionally, that thin insultor can have a hole in it from what ever reason right from the manufacturer. And if the 2 foils are touching thru that hole, what is gonnna happen? It'll create a short circuit around the ignition points that they are connected across and to the ignition system, guess what? that'll mean the points electrically never open. And remember, its the opening of the ignition points that creates the sparkies.

So bottom line of this discourse, "Is there any way to test a condenser? (Be specific, I'm not very electrically talented)" USE AN OHM METER

If'n its shorted, you'll read about zero ohms. If'n its good you'll read about infinite ohms. Note the "about", that means just that. Ohm meter is not a capacitor meter, but it works close enuff to identify a "shorted" capacitor. Its eather good or bad (shorted). Now then, if'n your capacitor is "open", you can't tell from an ohm meter, but your igition points will burn out in about 1 hrs operating time..... ...Dell

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Owney

01-06-2002 10:18:12




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2002 22:16:47  
Now I'm really confused. Dave Smith says the only test I can do is for short or open. Are short and open the same thing, or opposite? In his description he says if its shorted I should get a steady reading (zero ohms) and no reading (infinite) if open. Dell says if its "open" my points will burn out, but that assumes my tractor will run. Does that mean open equals good? If my condenser is good will it automatically burn up my points? How EXACTLY do I check with my multimeter? I have an ohms setting. The condenser has 1 wire coming out of it. Do I connect that wire to one of my meter leads and the other meter lead to the case of the condenser? I told you I am not very electrically talented....Thanks , Owney

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Dell (WA)

01-06-2002 11:30:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-06-2002 10:18:12  
Owney..... ...now why would you think a short and an open are the same thing? they are exactly opposite and both are BAD in electrical things. And you must have a good condenser to prevent your ignition points from burning out from the electrical surge due to the ignition coil magnetic inductance property. And if'n ya don't understand enny of this, go talk to a highschool nerd in person.

I told you exactly how to check a capacitor and why, and Dave told you exactlly the same thing. He and I are in agreement.

I described exactly how your capacitor was constructed, 2 thin metallic foils separated by thin insulator rolled up for convience. And just think, if'n one of those foils is connected to the capacitor center wire, just where must the other foil be connected to? the round metalic case, maybe?

Well what do you know? connect your ohm meter to those two and read 'em. Swap the leads around and read 'em again if'n ya wants. Should get about the same answers. Exact answers are not important, because an ohm meter is not a capacitor meter, its just a short (bad) indicator.

Then you screw the capacitor case to the distibutor points plate don't you and connect the wire to the insulated part of the points. And 'vola' the capacitor is automatically connected electrically "across the points" where it will prevent your points from burning if'n its good.

Now then, if'n after all this 'splainin', you still donnna understand, throw your dammm condensor innna trash and squander your $$$ for a new one and fergittaboutit..... ..respectfully, Dell

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Dave Smith, In the South

01-06-2002 06:20:50




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2002 22:16:47  
The only check you can do with a analog ohm meter is for a short or open. When you connect the leads the meter should kick as the meter battery charges the capasitor then drop to zero. Reverse the leads and it should do the same. If you get a steady reading the capasitor is shorted. If you get no reading the capisitor is open. This will not tell you the value of the capasitor. I have never tried this with a digital meter and don't think it will work unles you have a very expensive one. I won't be able to check feed back on this till I get home up north next week.
Dave <*)))><

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Dell (WA)

01-05-2002 12:22:09




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 Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-05-2002 11:52:46  
Owney..... ..is this some sort of trick question? I flunked mindreading, just ask my ex-wife of 32 years..... .respectfully, Dell..... .who sez: dispite your claim of following the directions, ya didn't or it would have started.

At the very least, need to know if you 8N is a frontmount or sidemount distributor? Also need to know what is the voltage reading at the coil?



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Owney

01-05-2002 13:14:52




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 Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2002 12:22:09  
I have a front mount distributor. 12 volts going into and out of coil. I have checked the points, again, and they are gapped correctly, and close properly (I have continuity thru them when closed). My father bought this tractor brand new in 1950 and I have changed points etc. countless times. I am just stumped. Thanks, Owney



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Dell (WA)

01-05-2002 13:31:39




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-05-2002 13:14:52  
Owney..... ..."(I have continuity thru them when closed)".....Remember, ya onlys getts sparkies when the points open. Make certain that you haven't shorted out the points somehow because if'n ya did, the coil would never generate any sparkies. Make certain your springy thingy coil terminals actually make contact with the frontmount distributor contacts..... ..Dell, who thanks you for better information but is not certain how you determine that you have volts coming out of a single external terminal coil.

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Mark Hendershot

01-05-2002 12:32:15




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 Re: Re: 8N No spark in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2002 12:22:09  
Dell; I like your answers right to the point! Cut the chase give me more information. When I read some posts concerning trouble shooting a lot is left in the air to give a answer to a problem. Mark H.



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Mark Hendershot

01-05-2002 12:16:18




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 Re: 8N No spark in reply to Owney, 01-05-2002 11:52:46  
Check your points again and make sure they close and open and check the gap also. Mark H.



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