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How do I wire the solenoid?

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OKRon

11-23-2002 14:00:07




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I have about one hour to work on the tractor before my wife finds something else for me to do. I usually check the archives before I post a question, but sometimes I can spend an hour there, and so this time I post first and then go searching.

I tore out the old wiring when I began the engine rebuild last March. I am putting the wiring back together now, all new wire, correct gage, etc., but I have run into a snag.

I found a 12V wiring diagram with the help of the archives, but I'm not clear about a couple of things. One is, how I am supposed to wire the solenoid? There are four terminals; one large terminal on either side of the solenoid and two smaller ones, marked "I" and "S" in between the larger two. From the diagram I have, it appears that the "+" side of the battery goes to some terminal on the solenoid, obviously one of the two large terminals. I am left to assume, because the diagram is unclear, that the other large terminal of the solenoid connects to the starter terminal. I do not know which large terminal connects to what. The diagram shows a wire from the solenoid to the push-button starter switch, with the other side of the starter switch connected to ground. I expect that either the "I" or "S" terminal connects to the starter swtich, but which one? The last connection is between the solenoid and the "+" terminal of the ammeter. Again, I expect this connection begins at either the "I" or "S" terminal. Can someone please explain which wire goes where?

My other question involves the terminal block. There are three posts on the block, one on either side of the resistor and then a "third". Since my ohmmeter reads open between this third post and either of the other two, I take it to mean that I can run a jumper between one of resistor posts and the third post and then consider the third post to be electrically the same as the post it is connected to. I seem to recall that that is how this thing was when I took it apart. Is this correct, or should that third post be somehow connected to a specific point on the resistor? The third post is open with respect to either other post (when there are no wires attached to any post); is this OK or does it indicate that I should have forked over the $15 for a new terminal block when I was at the tractor store getting a new ammeter this week?

Two final notes: This is a 2N front mount, and, the way I have it wired now, the side marker lamp does not light when I turn on the ignition switch.

Any help will of course be appreciated. I'll go look in the archives for now.

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Rich,NJ

11-24-2002 06:00:27




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 Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon, 11-23-2002 14:00:07  
Can I jump in here for a sidebar question? I recently put a new starter and solenoid on my 52 8N 6V sidemount dist. The starter was an exchange that must have been for a different model. It was NOT drilled and tapped where the previous solenoid had been mounted. It fits in every other way. Does this need grounding by being attached? Can this be the cause of why the starter switch is not working? To start the tractor, now, I have a piece of copper tubing that I flattened one end, bent into a U shape and drilled a hole into. The hole goes over the Bat. Terminal and then I lay the other end onto the little busbar connecter between the Starter terminal and the starter, It works fine for now , but it is not acceptable in the long run. So Should I try to drill and tap this starter body and risk drilling into the windings or leave it alone and get a new starter switch? Rich

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Phil (NJ-AZ-SK)

11-24-2002 11:14:08




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 Re: Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to Rich,NJ, 11-24-2002 06:00:27  
Rich, Only some automotive solenoids use the frame for grounding. The standard tractor solenoid has one side of the relay coil connected internally to the HOT BAT terminal. The (one) Small external connector goes to your Starter Switch and that supplies the ground. It is important that the BAT Cable be wired to the correct Common (internally connected) connector on the solenoid. Easy to check.. remove starter connection from the solenoid and jumper bat (hot) to that now open connecter.. push starter switch .. does relay click? if yes! you have the solenoid backwards.

Hope this Helps,

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Jim Cox

11-23-2002 21:28:20




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 Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon, 11-23-2002 14:00:07  
another possibility on the 4 term solenoid: Batt-starter-S(tart)-R(elay) the last one jumps voltage past the resistor to the coil, since the starter motor is pulling the voltage down. But, there is a possibility it is an industrial solenoid and not an old automotive style, whereas the two small ones would be hot and ground. The Delco-Remy training book on 'cranking motors' calls the starter an 'engineered short circuit' which is why the voltage drops so bad during crank.
Good Luck
Jim Cox

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Dell (WA)

11-23-2002 21:08:45




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 Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon, 11-23-2002 14:00:07  
Ron..... .....you've probably got it figgered out by now but justin case ya needs re-assuring..... .

The OEM starter solenoid is a 3-terminal unit, mounted so the little terminal is next to the engine block and hard to get to. The big terminals obviously transfer the BIG starter AMPS.

What is not so obvious, the OEM 3-terminal starter solenoid coil gets its power internally from the BIG BATT terminal and you activate the solenoid coil by GROUNDING it with the BIG starter button by the tranny shifter when the tranny is in NEUTRAL.

To use a 4-terminal starter solenoid on your tractor, connect eather the I or S small terminal (don't matter, which ever is eaziest) to the BIG BATT terminal. This will activate the solenoid coil when you GROUND the other small terminal with the tranny shifter pushbutton.

As to your 3-terminal ballast resistor question, the center terminal is usually connected to both the BIG BATT terminal on starter solenoid (so it gets battery power) and then one side of the simple ignition switch is also connected to the center terminal.

The other side of the 2-terminal ignition switch is connected to eather side of the "infamous ballast resistor" and ALSO to the sidemarker light same place. Then the other side of the ballast resistor is connected to the frontmount ignition coil terminal.

But since this is a 12 volt conversion, and since I didn't do it, I'm not certain wheather you are using a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor and the OEM 6 volt ignition coil. And if you are, it could be before the ballast resistor, or it could be after. Electrically, doesn't make a difference.

Or you could be using a real 12 volt frontmount coil and different rules apply. I flunked mindreading, just ask my ex-wife of 32 years..... ..... ..Dell

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duey

11-23-2002 16:15:32




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 Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon, 11-23-2002 14:00:07  
Ron, the kind of solenoid you're describing doesn't belong on a 2N. Sounds like you're heading down the path of bypassing the transmission safety feature.

You may wish to re-think that.... do you really want for you or somebody else to be able to start the tractor with the transmission in gear ????



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OKRon- I found a little help, but still not there yet.

11-23-2002 14:16:23




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 Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon, 11-23-2002 14:00:07  
The N-series.com diagram shows the "I" terminal goes to the starter switch. It, however, does not show where the other connection from the starter switch goes. It appears from this diagram that the ammeter is connected directly to the same (large) terminal on the solenoid as the "+" battery terminal. Is this the "S" terminal; is the "S" terminal internally connected to one of the large terminals?

Hey, how do I test the solenoid, to make sure it is working?

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Phil (NJ-AZ-SK)

11-23-2002 15:21:25




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 Re: Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon- I found a little help, but still not there yet., 11-23-2002 14:16:23  
OK Ron, >>> It appears from this diagram that the ammeter is connected directly to the same (large) terminal on the solenoid as the "+" battery terminal.>>> YES

The other side of the Ammeter has a wire that goes to the Third Term (lower) of the term Block, and the ignition switch also has one wire on the third Term. The other wire from the ignition Switch goes to the Upper Left Terminal of the terminal Block (left side of Ballast)The Alt side marker also connects to this left side terminal.

The right side of the oem ballast should have a wire going to the "Second" Ballast Resistor (ICR-13 or equiv) and then a wire from second Ballast to the Coil.

The S and I (Small) Terminals are not normal for this tractor but you can make the relay work. (I think the "I" is used for ballast bypass in auto's but not used on your tractor )..

Try with jumper wires to "make" the relay with one wire (hot) on the "S" terminal and another wire connected to the solenoid frame.. If the relay clicks (Makes) Those are the connections that you must use... You will have to isolate (remove from Ground) the Starter switch or... isolate the frame of the solenoid.

Hope this Helps

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OKRon

11-23-2002 15:44:50




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 Re: Re: Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to Phil (NJ-AZ-SK), 11-23-2002 15:21:25  
Thanks, I think this might help. In addition to the solenoid wiring problem, it appears that all three terminals on the terminal block have specific uses. I'm gonna try to follow your directions tomorrow (when it is light again) and see if I can make it work, and hopefully it will make the wiring diagrams make sense. Both wiring diagrams (the one I found previously and the n-series.com diagram) left me with the impression that only two terminals on the terminal block are used.

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Rusty

11-23-2002 14:30:15




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 Re: Re: How do I wire the solenoid? in reply to OKRon- I found a little help, but still not there yet., 11-23-2002 14:16:23  
Your solenoid is not the one in the wire diagram. This is adding to your confusion. You can use the solenoid but there is a trick involved. Can't remember exactly how it works. Let me guess but wait for dell to tell you the right connections. The battery goes to a large lug. A hot wire from the battery goes to the I. Go to the starter from the other big lug. And the s goes to the starter button. I think.

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