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Alternator back feed ???

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Rod MI

12-05-2002 23:01:29




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Hi my tractor will diesel when shut of and Jim Spencer S.E. Michigan post reminded me about back feed threw the alternator wire can keep the engine running. Could this be my problem? The engine has only 60 hour on it and now I'm thinking about it. It could have started around the time of the 12V conversion but not shire. I have a 1 wire alternator and the coil has a internal resister and electronic ignition if sow how could I test this and stop this thanks Rod MI

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Jim Cox

12-06-2002 21:57:55




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 Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to Rod MI, 12-05-2002 23:01:29  
I agree with Dave in OR and Mr Spencer. If there is NO wire on the GM #1 terminal, then the available voltage found on the #1 terminal will not be causing the run-on. If I were putting a three-wire 10SI Delco alt on a tractor, I would put a DPST ignition switch on , and skip the diode, just to keep it simpler, not to make it any better. I also wonder how a vehicle with no shocks will treat a solid state device crimp-capped between two wires

Jim Cox
Electrical Rebuilder

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Thanks Rod MI

12-06-2002 07:33:42




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 Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to Rod MI, 12-05-2002 23:01:29  
Thanks Rod MI



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David - OR

12-06-2002 06:44:00




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 Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to Rod MI, 12-05-2002 23:01:29  
If it is a true "one wire" alternator, then the feed-back problem does not apply. Such an alternator has only one large wire connected from the large post on the alternator back to the battery. It does not have any connection at all to the P1 connector on the alternator.

Side story -- GM cars back in the 1970's did have exactly the problem Jim Spencer mentioned. The alternator self-exciting diodes would feed back through the idiot light on the dash and provide enough voltage to the coil to sorta kinda generate enough spark to keep the engine running on. It didn't run well, or even diesel all the time, due to the voltage drop through the idiot light, so folks confused it with the dieseling that stems from combustion chamber deposits, high idle speeds, etc. The crude emission controls of the era had created their own issues of dieseling so it took awhile before the alternator issue was fully understood. GM itself was the original source of the "diode fix".

Assuming you have a side-mount distributor (don't think they make electronic ignition for front mount), then one test is as follows:

With the tractor off, ease the boot back on one end of the high voltage wire from the coil to the distributor, and ensure that the wire can be pulled off with minimal effort.

Block the wheels and start the tractor in neutral.
Put on some dry leather gloves.

Get off the tractor, reach over and turn off the key switch.

Assuming the tractor diesels, pull off the high voltage wire with your gloved hand. Watch out for the fan belt, etc.

If the dieseling immediately stops, you have some sort of feedback or ignition wiring problem. If the dieseling continues without regard to the high voltage wire, then you have garden variety dieseling caused by preignition, etc.

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REMMo

12-06-2002 05:32:22




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 Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to Rod MI, 12-05-2002 23:01:29  
If the problem were feedback it would keep running just like you never shut the switch off. Most times on autos dieseling or run on is caused when the engine is shut down whike idling too fast. Make sure the idle is slow enough and give it just a sec or two to idle down. REM



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JD

12-05-2002 23:13:31




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 Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to Rod MI, 12-05-2002 23:01:29  
The alternator can't feed the ignition coil when you shut the ignitions switch off. Check your timing and your idle and mixture adjustment.



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Jim Spencer S.E. Michigan

12-06-2002 17:18:16




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 Re: Re: Alternator back feed ??? in reply to JD, 12-05-2002 23:13:31  
Jd,
Your statement "The alternator can't feed the ignition coil when you shut the ignitions switch off", should be "The alternator can't feed the ignition coil when you shut the ignitions switch off, IF IT IS PROPERLY WIRED".
The wire used to excite the alternator will cause feedback if not wired properly.
Jim



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