Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum
:

Timing questions

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
9N'er

07-06-2000 08:26:17




Report to Moderator

Researched timing and firing order posts late last night. Help me determine if I understand this...but here are the questions:

When I shut-down the tractor, who knows what cylinder was in compression stage...that would be random...correct? If that's the case, rotate the fan or put the tractor in 3rd and push til #1 is in full compression. ??

Given that there is an offset on the tang to mount the distributor back on to the tractor; the offset tang does not necessarily place the timing at #1 cylinder TDC...is this the correct understanding?

Or, does the offset tang ensure that the distributor points are lined up to close at the points for cylinder one only?

In other words, because I turned the points while it sat on the shelf and studied what a distributor was, the points could be set at any place, but not necessarily at TDC for cylinder one?

It seems to me, that with the distributor installed only one way on to the engine, there are two possible scenario's: that I could be off 180 degrees or in the correct position...do I have this right?

By mounting the distibutor back onto the engine; that does not guarantee that the timing would be correct.

Does what I am describing and asking make sense? I'm trying to sort through the details of timing. Because the timing may not be right, the spark could be off or non-existant, therefore this could be the culprit for no spark to the plugs. Am I understanding this correctly? I appreciate the assistance to set me straight again. 9n'er

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Rick in Kansas

07-06-2000 17:54:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
Been reading your posts for some time now. You may remember I rebuilt an old 9N (engine only) this past winter. Everyone is telling you right about timing. Even if you didn't have the little O's on the cam and crank timing gears lined up, you should still have spark at the plugs, just at the wrong time. Here's something new to look at: Like you , I played with my distributor on the bench, only I disassembled mine completely to clean it. I'm going from memory, so this may not be 100% accurate, there is a thin strip of copper that attaches a contact from the magneto down through the point contacts, this is isolated from the body of the distributor except when the points are closed. Check to see if this strip is broken or other insulators around the internal screws are shorted. It's something new to check.

Best Regards!!!!!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9N'er

07-06-2000 18:05:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: timing questions in reply to Rick in Kansas, 07-06-2000 17:54:59  
Ok...I'll look into this too. I'm going to know this distributor better than I know my wife when this is all said and done with. Don't tell her I said this...she may just end up agreeing! and that truth may hurt more than I care to admit! thanks! 9N'er



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob (KY)

07-06-2000 16:39:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
HEY 9N'ER, Be CAREFUL during installation of your distributor. The distributor WILL install with the tang out of proper position and you could wind up breaking the distributor housing.
When you install it rotate the shaft to align the tang into the slot. The distributor housing WILL mount flush to the engine block when installed correct. As you tighenten the bolts check that both sides of the distributor housing are staying flush. Have enough light so you can see that this is happening. I know that since I got past ???? years of age a little extra light helps the eyesight.
One more thing, If you don't HURRY UP and get that tractor going we 'uns will just have to come 'n do it FOR you!!!! :) :)

KEEP AT IT!!
Bob(KY)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9N'er

07-06-2000 18:01:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: timing questions in reply to Bob (KY), 07-06-2000 16:39:42  
good advice Bob. i'm getting gooder at taking this darn distributor on and off. Tonight, I did just eaxactly what you prescribed, rotating the distributor to match the tang to git that right fit. My skills are improving...but I'm aging, the world is going by, and my 9N still sits with fresh paint, no scratches, and deader than a door knob. I like lawn ornaments, but this one has too much blood, sweat, tears and promises to the wife that I'll make this up to her! I want to post a photo in the worst way...oh man, so bad it hurts! Thanks for the post. 9N'er

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
big g

07-06-2000 13:06:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
Think of it this way...When the offset distributor tang is properly engaged in the camshaft slot the rotor and the four point lobes will be positioned to send spark to the right cylinder at near the correct time. Exact timing is obtained through proper point gap and ajustment of the timing plate on the side of the distributor. The fact that each cylinder is on the compression stroke when all of this occurs is pre set with the engagement of the crank shaft and cam timing gears ...geo

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

07-06-2000 10:09:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
9n'ER..... ...per I&T FO-4 manual for front mount N-Engines "Recommended static timing is top dead center (TDC) which will be automatically obtained regardless of crankshaft position when the distributor is installed in the engine, providing that the basic timing of the distributor was correctly set at 1/4 in" and "The slot in the end of the camshaft is offset so the distributor can only be installed in one position. Thus, the static timing will automatically be correct regardless of carnkshaft position when distributor is installed on the engine." and "NOTE: The front mount engines were not provided with timing marks." and "Spark timing at speeds above idling is controlled automatically by centrifugal weights built into the distributor."

Now then to make you feel more confortable in all this, I'd pull all the spark plugs, put my thumb over the #1 hole, pull the fan, turning the engine and hopefully feel the compression build. then point the distributor rotor at the #1 sparkplug wire position and see if the offset tang matches up. If you can't feel the compression build and you really gotta know, breakout the center insulation out of an old sparkplug and snap a small balloon over the end of the hollowed out sparkplug, put that in the #1 and when your balloon blows up, vola' its in compression stroke.

Hope this helps..... ...Dell

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9N'er

07-06-2000 18:14:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: timing questions in reply to Dell (WA), 07-06-2000 10:09:57  
did this tonight. From my point of view (front mount distributors are inconvenient) that rotor is not in correct position to the #1 wire in the dist. cap. It seems off. Now, here's two questions: there is a screw on the side of the distributor...what purpose does this screw offer? 2. How do I line up the rotor to be closer to the #1 wire? My I&T is sitting at the bottom of a stack of papers at work right now...otherwise I would run to the office and look-it-up...but that seems maniacal...the wife and kid want their movie and me! thanks for the help...looking forward to your reply! 9n'er

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

07-07-2000 18:17:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 18:14:28  
9N'er..... .Screw in the side of frontmount distributor locks the timing adjustment plate after you have set the timing to 1/4" gap. (hint: us a 1/4 drill bit as a feeler gauge)

Yeah, you can change the basic timing of the distributor externally while mounted, for lousy fuel quality, but you really don't want to go there. (up for retard, down to advance, if ya' gotta' know) But so what? There are no external timing markers so you don't know where you ended up at anyways. Do it like the I&T FO-4 manual describes. Take your distributor off and set the gap for TDC (1/4") after you set the point gap (0.015).

To line up your rotor to be closer to #1 distributor capwize, put the tractor in gear and push/pull the big rear tire to rotate the engine and distributor rotor in the direction you want it to line up at.

Hope this helps. Please keep us informed on your progress and success, we care..... .Dell

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9n'er

07-06-2000 13:09:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: timing questions in reply to Dell (WA), 07-06-2000 10:09:57  
this makes sense. All replies make sense, it's just that I am such a slow butt head when it comes to understanding things that I have little talent for, that they sort of seep in slowly until all of a sudden voila, it makes sense. I apologize to the N Board for my slowness, and I thank all of you for your patience. But this is necessary to me, and I would rather go this route than haul it to a mechanic and say "start-it, and I'll cut you a check." -9N'er

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt Basch

07-06-2000 09:56:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
Unlike most cars the distributor body is not used
to adjust the timing.Only the plate within the distributor is adjusted to the relationship of the
rotor.The housing can go in either way.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Old Ag

07-06-2000 09:33:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
I'm no mechanic, but this is how I understand it. You're right that the dist can go on one of two ways, but the rotor button will only go on the distributor one way. So if you know which way the rotor button was pointing (10 o'clock, 4 o'clock, whatever) when you took the distributor off the tractor, you just put it back in that position and you should have the distributor in the right place.

I hope that's right.

Old Ag
'41 9N
Texas

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
BB Stacker

07-06-2000 09:10:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: timing questions in reply to 9N'er, 07-06-2000 08:26:17  
9N'er: Well you've got me completly confused. But I think I've sorta caught your drift. What may help you understand, is the fact that the cam shaft drives the distributor and it turns at half the speed of the crankshaft. This means that 360 degrees of distributor rotation is equal to 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation and the distributor will only fire on the compression stroke. Now we're equally confused.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy