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PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please

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Richard Z.

07-14-2000 07:37:54




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I have an 8N that I use for finish mowing using a King Kutter. The PTO has an adapter (not sure exactly what it is called) which fits over the PTO axle coming out of the rear of the tractor. The finish mower just connects to the adaptor (?) with a self locking key. Ever since I have had the tractor, the adaptor is held to the PTO shaft by a nut and bolt. My problem is that the bolt is constantly sheared in two after very little use. I have used the hardest bolt I can buy and it still happens. Is the adaptor (?) the wrong type to be used in this situation or is there another way to fix the adaptor to the PTO shaft.

HELP....I have had a very nasty instance where the bolt was sheared and the adaptor pulled away from the PTO shaft while mowing, causing a very dangerous situation.

Thanks...

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Old Ag

07-19-2000 10:13:30




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
Had the exact same thing happen to me a while back with a bush-hog. The PTO shaft connection to the 'hog' used a woodruff key instead of splines. I found that there was no key in there, so the bolt was taking the entire shear stress of the PTO shaft. I installed a properly sized woodruff key and the problem has not occurred since. Good luck!

Old Ag



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Richard Z.

07-14-2000 22:01:59




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
Ok, here is some clarifications...and a new question.

The coupler is a female 1 1/8 to a 1 3/8 male. The female part of the coupler turns inside of the outer part which makes up the male shaft. The bolt is used to hold the coupler onto the PTO from the tractor. In doing this, the force of the PTO is transferred through the bolt to turn the outer male shaft and thus to the mower. The PTO shaft turns freely on the tractor as well as the mower shaft, thus the problem is not there, but in the coupler setup.

Do the over-run couplers I see on this site have some way to be fixed to the PTO shaft of the tractor without a bolt ? Do they have some type of retracting key to hold them onto the tractor PTO shaft hole ?

Thanks all for the info thus far.

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E. Allison

07-17-2000 10:05:15




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 Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 22:01:59  
It takes a lot of force to shear the hardened bolts you mentioned. Since you have checked the pto and drive shafts for straightness, the next step is to check the pto for binding due to realitive position of the mower to the tractor. Are you using horizontal stabilizers? Perhaps there is too much sway allowing the pto to bind going around corners. How about the length of the pto shaft? Could it be too long and bottoming out when you mow through a ditch or raise the mower with the 3pt? E. Allison

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STUMP PULLER

07-15-2000 20:27:09




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 Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 22:01:59  
I EXPECT THAT YOU ARE DEFEATING THE ORC WITH THE BOLT THROUGH THE WHOLE ORC. TO HAVE THE ORC OPERATE PROPERLY YOU SHOULD HAVE A 2 INCH ROLL PIN THAT JUST CONTACTS THE INNER FEMALE PART. THERE ARE SOME QUICK DISCONNECTS THAT LATCH AROUND THE CIRCULAR CUTOUT IN THE PTO SHAFT. I EXPECT WE BOTH SHOULD GET A NEW 1 3/8 INCH PTO SHAFT. THE ATTACHMENT WITH THE ROLL PIN OR QUICK DISCONNECT SHOULDNT TRANSMIT ROTATIONAL FORCE. THE SPLINES SHOULD DO THAT. THE ROLL PIN JUST KEEPS THE ORC FROM PULLING BACKWARDS OFF OF THE PTO. I HOPE WE ARE COMMUNICATING CORRECTLY ABOUT THIS. GOOD LUCK

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Richard Z.

07-15-2000 22:17:30




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 Re: Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to STUMP PULLER, 07-15-2000 20:27:09  
Stump...
My coupling doesnt have any way to hold it onto my PTO coming out of the tractor. There are not internal pins or quick disconnects. The coupling only has the hole through both the inner female and outer part. The PTO of my tractor is straight, with only a hole through it and no circular cutout on it for a quick disconnect. Therefore it appears that the PTO force is being applied directly through the bolt to turn the mower.

Do the conversion shafts have a circular cutout on the splines so that my mower quick disconnect will lock onto it ? Or does the ORC couplings available have some internal key that locks the female part of the coupling to the PTO shaft that is straight such as mine is?

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Jim WI

07-18-2000 11:28:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-15-2000 22:17:30  
The bolt or pin shouldn't be what transmits the force from the PTO to the coupler. The splines on the PTO shaft should do that. Are you saying that your PTO shaft doesn't have any splines?

Or are you just saying that the hole through the ORC is the only way to hold it to the PTO? If so, the way it's supposed to work is that a roll pin gets driven through the outer hole into the the hole in the inner piece. This pin must be short enough that it only locks the inner piece. Then the hole in the outer piece gets plugged (with a grease zerk if I recall correctly). If the pin passes through both parts of the ORC, you're defeating the purpose of the ORC by locking both parts together.

Until you mentioned that the coupling was an ORC I thought you just had an adapter like I do.

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D.Loring

06-19-2001 18:09:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Jim WI, 07-18-2000 11:28:45  
Im am looking for boltblue.com to down load music onto a cell phone.



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Jim WI

07-18-2000 11:31:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Jim WI, 07-18-2000 11:28:45  
One last note. Since you said it was this way when you got the tractor, the odds are that the ORC is worn out and that's why it's pinned. You might need to buy a new ORC.



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STUMP PULLER

07-14-2000 14:32:38




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
ALOT OF N'S ARE RUNNING WITH THE ORC DEFEATED BY THE BOLT THROUGH THE PTO SHAFT. I EXPECT YOU HAVE FEW OR NO SPLINES LEFT IN YOUR PTO SHAFT. I TURNED DOWN AN EXACT BOLT SIZE TO GIVE IT A LITTLE MORE BEEF, BUT IT WILL PROBABLY BUST WITH TIME. WE SHOULD BOTH GO TO A NEW 3/8 PTO SHAFT EVENTUALLY AS SUGGESTED. GOOD LUCK



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E. Allison

07-14-2000 12:58:01




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
Hello,
Is it possible the pto or drive shaft is bent? Are your U-joints OK? Try coupling up to the pto and turning the shaft by hand with the pto disengaged (be certain the tractor is not running when working on the pto) and check for binding as the shaft is slowly revolved.



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Nolan

07-14-2000 11:59:27




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
In rotation, the splines are supposed to be transmitting the torque. If through wear and the resulting play this torque is being transmitted through the bolt or pin, it will continue to fail as it's simply too small for that improper job. You need to fix the adapter, the pto shaft or both in this case.

If the bolt or pin is being sheared along the shaft, then you've got a problem with thrust being applied in some fashion. Most likely from either too long or too short a pto shaft, and improper fastening of the impliment and or pto shaft. Correct that situation in this case.

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hey busdriver

07-14-2000 22:01:10




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 Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Nolan, 07-14-2000 11:59:27  
I had a problem like that too, mine was on a rototiller . Then I found that my PTO shaft was a little to long and at different heights of the soil it would bottom out causing it to break , once I discovered that problem, I cut a inch and half off each enf of the PTO sahft and never had any problems since.
Good luck
Stan



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Jim WI

07-18-2000 11:19:10




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 Re: Re: Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to hey busdriver, 07-14-2000 22:01:10  
This one sounds like a real possibility -- especially since the shaft on my KK mower was just a bit too long when I bought it. A little hacksaw time (boy those shafts are tough) and everything was OK.



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Jim WI

07-14-2000 10:39:53




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
I think I have exactly the same setup on a 2N.

The adapter is a short stub that is 1 1/8 on the female end and fastens to the PTO on the tractor with a pin. The KK mower shaft connects to the adapter via a push-release locking mechanism on the side of the mower shaft.

I use a pin that I bought at Fleet Farm to lock the adapter (I think it was sold as a PTO pin). That pin appears to be hardened steel.

I don't know why your bolt keeps breaking -- do you tighten it the nut down to the surface of the adapter? If so, it wouldn't take much play in the adapter to fatigue the bolt and eventually break it. Try finding a pin.

On the other hand, maybe your mower's got a problem. I've never broken my PTO pin - not even the time a big rock jumped up out of the ground into the mower.

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Claus

07-14-2000 08:29:35




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 Re: PTO Shearing Bolt...Help? Please in reply to Richard Z., 07-14-2000 07:37:54  
Is your adapter to adapt a 1 1/8 PTO to a 1 3/8 spline? Is there rotational play in the adapter? If there is, then that would cause your bolt to shear. If you have the 1 1/8 PTO, you may want to convert to the 1 3/8 pto. This costs about $100.00
If it is an ORC, you do not need it for a finish mower and if you have the 1 3/8 PTO, it will work fine.
Happy Motoring
Claus



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