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ENGINE REBUILD?

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SF

07-14-2000 15:48:22




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I HAVE AN 8N THAT IS LOW ON HORSEPOWER. THE LOCAL REPAIR SHOP SAYS THE ENGINE IS WORN OUT AND NEEDS REBUILDING. THE PRICE THEY GAVE ME IS NOT IN MY BUDGET AT THIS TIME. I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS; IS THERE ANYPLACE THAT SELLS ENGINES FOR THESE TRACTORS? I KNOW THEY SELL ALREADY REBUILT ENGINES FOR CARS I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS SUCH A THING FOR OLD TRACTORS OR NOT. THE OTHER QUESTION IS WOULD IT BE WISE FOR A NON-MECHANIC TO TRY TO REBUILD IT HIMSELF. I KNOW THERE ARE BOOKS AND VIDEOS AVAILABLE AND I AM WILLING TO WORK BUT I DO NOT HAVE THE KNOW-HOW. I HAVE THE BASIC TOOLS AND HAVE REPLACED PARTS HERE AND THERE BUT I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE MOTOR. CAN THESE HOW-TO GUIDES HELP ME? I KNOW THESE OPTIONS WOULD NOT EXACTLY BE CHEAP EITHER BUT THE PRICE I WAS GIVEN BY THE PROS WAS ALMOST AS MUCH AS I PAID FOR THE TRACTOR. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

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Russ in SoCal

07-16-2000 01:15:33




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
SF,

Something that might help you decide would be to order the rebuild video. It's 24 bucks at the link below.

Then you can decide if it's a project you want to take on yourself. Once you have the knowledge from the video, you're in a better position to ask around your neck of the woods; there might be some old timers who could get you through the "tricky" parts. Then there's the great folks here.

All my wrenches fit jet engines, but I wouldn't hesitate to tackle a rebuild knowing the amount of help available.

Good luck with whatever the decision. I've got to admire your desire to keep the old tractor alive.

Russ
8N58182*

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SF

07-15-2000 19:04:45




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR THE INPUT. THE BOARD SEEMS TO HAVE AN ENCOURAGING OUTLOOK ON REBUILDING IT MYSELF. I WILL LOOK INTO IT FURTHER. THERE ARE UNFORTUNATELY OTHR THINGS I HAVE TO CHECK OUT BEFORE I DECIDE WHAT TO DO. I WILL GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND TO MY SITUATION: THE TRACTOR WAS RUNNING PRETTY GOOD AS OF THIS SPRING, I COULD TELL THE HORSEPOWER WAS DOWN JUST BY COMPARING IT TO MY NEIGHBORS 9N, BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT DID WHAT I NEEDED. THEN THE BAD NEWS: A FUEL LEAK CAUGHT FIRE WHILE I WAS MOWING AND BURNT EVERY THING THAT WOULD BURN FROM THE STEERING WHEEL ON FORWARD (WIRING, BATTERY, BELT AND HOSES. I HAD AN ESTIMATE TO SEE IF IT WAS WORTH FIXING AND THE FIRE DAMAGE REPORT WAS YES. BUT THEN THEY LOOKED IN THE MOTOR AND SAID WHILE THE FIRE CAUSED NO HARM THERE IT WAS JUST WORN OUT AND THAT BETWEEN THE TO OF THEM IT WAS NOT WORTH IT. THE ESTIMATED FIRE DAMAGE WAS 2500 AND THE REBUILD WAS 2500. THIS WAS HOWEVER WITH THEM DOING THE WORK. I AM COMFORTABLE DOING THE REWIRING MYSELF AND EVEN BODY WORK ETC. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF I COULD MAYBE DO THE ENGINE WORK ALSO AND IF MY SAVINGS IN LABOR WOULD MAKE IT WORTH SAVING. I AM GOING TO CHECK ON PRICES FOR ALLTHE OTHER PARTS AND REBUILDING IT AND SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE. I JUST CAN'T STAND THE THOUGHT OF AFTER 50 YEARS OF WORK THAT IT WOULD BE ME THAT TOTALED THIS OLD TRACTOR. I'LL DO SOME FIGURING AND LET THE NUMBERS DECIDE. ANY FURTHER COMMENTS WOULD BE WELCOME. THANKS AGAIN, STEVE.

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Richard Z.

07-14-2000 22:43:30




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
Why don't you check the compression and see what you have ?

I just finished rebuilding my engine so I will give you my findings...

My tractor had about a compression of 30 on two cylinders and 60 on two. Burned oil at a good pace. Was a bear to start, which required turning the motor over while choking for 10 seconds, then turning on the ignition. But the tractor ran and I was able to use it for mowing.
Finally I got motivated.

Total parts cost me under $250 (which included everything...sleeves, pistons, gaskets, bearings, etc). Getting my crank turned cost me $100. The key to making it easy is getting a manual and having the right tools. The engine is about as simple as it gets. My biggest problem was removing my old sleeves, which required welding a bead to shrink the sleeve, then hammering them out. Other than that, the job was a breeze.

The question you have to answer is...how much can you afford and do you have the time? For me, the project took about 5 days working a couple hours each day in the evenings...by myself. Or, can you live with what the tractor is giving you now ?

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Nolan

07-14-2000 20:35:37




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
You've got a couple of other options you know.

First, you can simply put it back together and live with the power just the way it is. You can probably go for years on end this way without catastrophic failure. You'll be low on power, and probably burn some oil. Can you live with that?

The second alternative is to do a partial job. Maybe just a new set of rings. Rings and a honing can get you quite a ways. Bearings aren't cheap, but they really aren't expensive either. Helps if the oil pressure is badly low.

Some folks will baly-ho and decry the notion of doing what they call a "half arsed" job. If that's all your wallet can do, there's nothing wrong with doing it. In fact there's nothing wrong with it period. Sometimes that's all that's needed, or wanted. Only when you do this and then sell it as "fully rebuilt" would there be anything less then honest or acceptable in doing enough to get by.

Btw, I'm sorta in your boat myself. I pulled the head off tonight for a look and see, since I'm replacing the radiator. Looks like I've got about 200-300 thousanths clearance around the pistons. Do they need to be replaced? Yep, sure do. Is it going to happen? Nope. Can't afford it and don't have the time right now. So it'll continue running and burning oil. At least now I know what I'm dealing with - a worn out engine. So be it.

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Lynn T Gill

07-15-2000 06:34:49




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 Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to Nolan, 07-14-2000 20:35:37  
Nolan; I read your post with much intrest as I pulled the head on my much used 9N and found the piston tops coated in oil and like you have about .030" clearance on the piston/cylinder dia (I think you meant .030 not 300). I have decided to rering it damn the cost as I need the tractor and the repair is cheaper then a new one. I will have it broken today and will appreciate any advice as to what I should look for that is not obvious. Lynn in N FL

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Bill(Tx)

07-14-2000 19:34:51




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
Well, if I can rebuild 9N in my 2 car garage, you can too. My expertise is in architectural project management, and not being a mechanic, but by asking questions of the folks on this board, buying all of the service and parts manuals, and by asking questions of your local CNH (old Ford guys are best), you'll step off on the right foot like I did. Make some contacts with a machine shop that has had some experience with the N series. You can learn quite a lot from them in exchange for your business. The engine hoist and stand can be rented, while pullers, ring compressors, torque wrench, and the like are best purchased. Research the process a little and you'll find every greenhorn mechanic enjoyed the tremendous satisfaction of an N overhaul. Get the video too.

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TO2033322

07-14-2000 19:42:13




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 Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to Bill(Tx), 07-14-2000 19:34:51  
Hey Bill were did you get the gray and black seat cover?? Looks NICE!!

Bill Mc



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Bill(Tx)

07-14-2000 19:54:28




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 Re: Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to TO2033322, 07-14-2000 19:42:13  
It's really light and dark gray. The light gray matches the paint right on. It was pure chance that my small town old Ford and implement dealer had one that matched up so well. I'll check the mfg.



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Michael Az

07-14-2000 17:56:06




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
third party image

SF, Maybe the most imortant question is, do you have the desire, resolve and determination to do it? If you do, then you can do it. Read down the pages and read those posted by "9 nr", to give you an idea. The most technical aspects will be done by the machine shop grinding the crank, fitting the pistons. Another thing to think about, it may not be cheaper to do it yourself because you will be buying tools you don't have now. enginestand, cherry picker, gear puller and lots of other stuff. But, you will have those tools forever, and its money you would have paid the shop in labor anyway. It will be a lot of work, but you will know how the job was done, and you will learn a lot.----- Michael

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raytasch

07-14-2000 17:03:13




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
SF, It is not uncommon to have more in parts in these old tractors than in the initial cost of the tractor. A couple years ago I paid $100. for a tired, "ridden hard and put away wet" 8N. Spent another $700. on engine and misc. parts. Total investment was less than $1000. Today my son is using that tractor to pull a finish mower, blade snow and a host of other chores around his place.
You did not mention what you paid for the tractor but look at the value of a working 8N at between $2000. and $3500. + -. You can not buy much in the way of a new tractor for that kind of money; That is why these old Fords are so popular. Parts are relativly cheap and available. These old Fords are about as simple as a tractor can be. Old Henry's and Harry's boys engineered them to be worked on under less than perfect conditions and with the most basic tools. I would think that most people with average abilities can rebuild an N engine. There are rebuilt engines available. Look at some of the suppliers to this BB. I do not like to give free advertisement to non supporters of this BB but there are several agricultural suppliers who rebuild engines; About $1200--$1500.
I would want to make sure the engine needed an overhaul before going to that extreme.(It probably does.) What is the condition of the rest of the tractor? Does it justify a rebuilt engine? Run a compression test, wet and dry. Does it blow blue smoke? There is enough reading in the archives on this BB to take at least a day on any subject you choose on tractors. There are a few people who "hang out" here and will help with any questions or problems you have. Good luck and keep us posted. ray

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rich

07-14-2000 16:37:43




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD? in reply to SF, 07-14-2000 15:48:22  
i think you can get a rebuilt shortblock for about 1400.im having my 2n rebuilt at the ford new holland dealer here in ohio and will run 1100 to 1400 depending on how bad things are,this includes clutch. i think pretty reasonable good luck



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