Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum
:

The Joys of Decarboning

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Nolan

07-24-2000 12:15:38




Report to Moderator

Since the grass was getting tall, I decided to take my engines head off. It was that or mow. As I mentioned in another post, I discovered massive amounts of carbon built up on everything. Probably has a lot to do with the 200-300 thousanths piston to wall clearance I found in there. That part isn't getting fixed any time soon. But I did clean up the carbon.

No kidding, I had about 1/4 inch of the stuff on my rear piston. Not to mention all the carbon solidly built up around my valves, shrouding the heck out of them, and screwing up valve timing on all the cylinders. Oh the valves worked correctly, but buried in their carbon tunnels, as far as the engine was concerned they opened late, and closed early.

So the joy part of it all was the effect when I was done. Golly gee, but it's like I rebuilt the engine. I hate to think of how little power I was working with before, considering how little I'm working with now!

Now, the tractor doesn't bog down when I engage the hog. When I run into the creek, I can do so with authority (did it twice yesterday). It backfires through the muffler like it means it these days!

Seriously, carbon buildup is a real problem on old worn and cold blooded engines. It's a simple matter to take the head off. Decarboning the engine every few years can go a long ways to keeping it running well. If it hasn't been decarboned in your memory, doing so can result in delightfull improvements in how the tractor runs.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
9n'er

07-24-2000 18:15:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to Nolan, 07-24-2000 12:15:38  
Nolan: timely post. As usual, with all things I've done on this tractor, I applied paint but saw that I was also getting some oil in the antifreeze (seems to be the trend in this discussion forum lately). When I pulled the plugs I also saw some antifreeze. So, i read the posts this morning, came home, and lifted the head off...and fractured my nice enamel paint job around the head. Oh well, fixing the head gasket problem is more critical than some cracked paint. I was curious about the compression lifting it off, and so I connected the starter/and switch, disconnected the wire to the coil, turned the key, the engine turned over...but did not break free the head. I loosened the bolts by the way about 1/16. I did not have the manifold or exhaust system on, so I wonder if that had any effect? But I did take an old 1.5" wood chisel, and tapped around the perimeter, and it eventually lifted the head from the block. Carbon build-up? virtually none, except partially on the piston heads. Minor amounts of carbon on the valves (less than 1/32" or less on the valves). Was this ok? I did remove the carbon, and cleaned out the exhaust ports, and worked all of the studs free from rust. Tomorrow I'll put on the gasket. What's the trick to that? Zane recommends putting gasket maker in addition to the gasket...others say don't. What's the scoop? I don't want to have antifreeze going into the cylinders after going to this trouble. Tomorrow, I am taking the head in for an inspection, and if necessary to have it planed if it is indeed warped (20.00). Anyways, your post is great...just by chance this is what I was doing tonight. -9N'er p.s thanks for your advice and tip. good post. Here's the other advantage that you hinted at in your post: gasket 9.50; head planing (if necessary) 20.00...so for less than 30.00 or so, a good maintenance and minor tune-up item...that requires about 2-3 hours of time...if the head is difficult to remove...but it's an easy job that most can do with a torque wrench, some care, and patience.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Nolan

07-25-2000 04:03:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 18:15:58  
Glad you had so little carbon buildup in your engine. The type you describe sounds perfectly normal. So you won't be seeing the phenominal changes in engine personality that I did. That's actually good. One shouldn't let an engine get to the state mine was/is at.

These engines are darn low compression, so it's possible for a bit of paint to hold the head down. Add to that a good head gasket with nice sticky stuff still left, and you could probably run some of these machines for six months without head bolts before the head would finally come off.

What's the scoop on head gaskets? Well, I kinda like them and recommend them. Yea, I've run flat head engines before without them. You gain compression (theoretically at least), but you lose air flow into the cylinder, so you may have a net loss.

Anyhow, that's probably not what you're asking about. Head gaskets these days tend to go on dry. There is just the right amount of sticky stuff on them from the manufacturer. Follow the head gasket makers instructions on using sealant or not. Truth be told, I don't know what New Holland says or what the new head gasket looks like. I took my old one, cleaned things up, smeared it thinly with my favorite ultra copper, and put it back on.

I was kinda surprised to see how the various head bolts go down into the crankcase water jacket or oil area. That would promote leaks. I thought about applying a little bit of goo onto the threads of the bolts when I installed them to help seal them, but I didn't. Just lightly greased them instead. If I leak obnoxiously, I'll do that.

T'wasn't me that gave prices or head skimming numbers. Don't know them, especially for these engines. Skim it if you want, but I don't see an inherent reason to do so. These aren't high compression racing engines, so I just don't really think there's going to be a need of it.

Don't remember seeing it in the manual, but when you reinstall the head, follow the basic torquing path (around the head, starting in the center working out), but do so in incrimental steps. My own is to go first time around just seating the bolts. Second time around to around 10 ft lbs. Third time around to 25 ft lbs, fourth time around to 50, sixth time around to full torque. Wait a little while, recheck final torque values. Takes a little longer, but you tend to get a better result this way.

Btw, Eastwood sells these nifty plastic socket inserts so you won't damage the finish on your nuts and bolts. :-)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9n'er

07-25-2000 05:29:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to Nolan, 07-25-2000 04:03:57  
you answered my questions (again) before I posted them. I was curious about reinstalling the head, and how to seat it properly. thanks for the insights on the torque wrench and incremental approach. My head was stuck enough that I agree that I could have taken the bolts off and ran the tractor. It had all studs on it. The center studs were rusted, and given the layer of paint...no wonder it wouldn't pop. But it was worth a try. I like using the wide old wood chisel rather than a screwdriver...just for the reason that there is more surafce area and less point pressure to risk chipping or cracking the head. But I m so inexperienced, that I don't know how fragile or not cast iron is. thaks for the good reply. you're keeping me on the straight and narrow (as far as tractors go!)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Who are you, and what did you do with 9N'er?

07-24-2000 20:04:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 18:15:58  
"Oh well, fixing the head gasket problem is more critical than some cracked paint." This is NOT something the 9N'er we have all grown to know and love over the past few months would say. ;-) Just joshin' with ya 9N'er.. As always,thanks for posting your experiences.
Chuck (CA)



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
9n'er

07-25-2000 01:40:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to Who are you, and what did you do with 9N'er?, 07-24-2000 20:04:30  
Chuck :O I'm laughing. I know, I know, funny chippping the paint job around the head and block didn't bother me in the least. Just another small and time consuming step to keep delaying the truth that I never had a tractor at all. I figure, if I keep finding obscure problems, it will prevent me from posting a picture by explaining obscure excuses. Now, the tractor is head-less and I would dare not think about posting a photo of the Whimpster headless. That would be scracrilegous (spelkling?) to Whimpy's legacy. One thing nice about working on these yourself is...ya learn a lot, confidence grows, I have a better understanding of what's inside by doing and seeing, and that I should now have zero leakage of any fluids like oil and antifreeze either into the radiator or cylinders. I'm glad to have the confidence in that. The tractor continues to provide manageable problems and continues to set the pace of the completion date. I was hoping to clear-coat fenders and install headlight wiring, and the ignition system last night. well, oh, well...now I have to mask, fill and sand chipped areas, touch em' up and then get to the other work. -9n'er p.s hows the weather out there? we're hearing that winter is setting in...just wondering how the ol' woodstove is doing? :) (i'll post a photo of the Whimpster, if you post a photo of your renovated woodstove? maybe, I can delay the photo and the truth for a longer time...then I'm afraid ol' Ellwood will be out in California, working on your woodstove, just to see a photo of my 9N when both are done) good post, fun. thanks.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chuck (CA)

07-25-2000 13:16:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to 9n'er, 07-25-2000 01:40:27  
The Woodstove..
We have a slight problem with three of our hens. The upper oven I'm working on is on a workbench under an outside cover.... The oven door is someplace else.. and someday I'm really going to find it. Anyway, three of my layers patiently wait in line in the mornings to use that oven for a nest. For some reason, they prefer that over the nests I made with my blood and sweat. Come to think about it, that might make a pretty good picture too. I've been looking for a reason to buy a digital camera and this might be it. All I have to do now is convince Mrs. Chuck (CA).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rbell

07-25-2000 13:50:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to Chuck (CA), 07-25-2000 13:16:19  
or, build a fire and have roast hen! MMMMgood



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chuck (CA)

07-24-2000 20:06:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: The Joys of Decarboning in reply to Who are you, and what did you do with 9N'er?, 07-24-2000 20:04:30  
And also, thanks to you Nolan for sharing your wisdom, as you have so many times in the past.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy