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Learned something interesting today

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9n'er

07-24-2000 18:26:22




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I'm going to beat DonB to the punch here, just because I was on the phone with him this morning and I am trying to determine when did the aluminum grill end on the 9N's, and steel grills begin...(by serial number). Don learned about a very unique 9N that was recently purchased. It was a serial number (don't quote me to be exact here) around 41,000 to 42,000. That appears to be a 1940 9N (mine is 31649). This tractor came at a hefty price, but the unique thing about it was...less than 50 hours; mostly for parades and sitting in the barn. I won't relay the price, cuz I don't want to overstep my bounds here, but if this tractor is indeed all original, perhaps, I can make an assumption (oh how I hate that word) that aluminum grills were still on 9N's midway to the near the end of 1940. What do the experts think? I am just trying to narrow this item down out of curiosity. Oh, if I had a lot of discretionary money, what I find that would be! 9N'er

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Old Ag

07-25-2000 18:34:23




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 Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 18:26:22  
9N'er,

Is it true perhaps that "parts-is-parts"? That may be hard for the antique-tractor-originality-experts to believe, but I think if I were a supervisor on the factory floor putting together farm tractors in 1940, I may just use up what was available (aluminum stock, whatever) with what machines are running well (stampers, milling machines) until I had to make a change. Could be that there was an inventory of Al grills sitting in the corner when the "steel grill stamping machine" broke down (it was only newly ready afterall). All told, I bet there are hundreds of tractors out there for which factory stock are not exactly factory standard - gives them some "originality" of there own. Few of us will probably ever see the window sticker that came with our N's to know with what parts/options it was delivered.

I've got replacement tubular steel radius arms on my '41 9N. One day I'll be in restoration mode myself, and I'll wax nostalgic about the good ol' days when I-beam radius arms were in style. For now though, I'm just glad I can steer straight.

Take care, keep us posted, let us know when and where for the book signing.

Old Ag

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Old Ag

07-25-2000 18:40:35




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Steve in CA, 07-25-2000 10:16:22  
I think it would be good to have one remanufactured from some down-home, mistake-making, learn-as-you-go, knuckle-busting, beer-downing, paycheck-squandering project. But, I may think differently when the time comes for me. :-)

Old Ag



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9n'er

07-25-2000 12:04:29




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Steve in CA, 07-25-2000 10:16:22  
hard to say...I don't have money..or less of it now since I've delved in to this partial 9N restoration. If it would have had aluminum components...yes. The Ford logo tires are a definite plus. But value to one may be held differently to another. I would have given it serious thought; and if i had a lot more money, I would have then had it rebuilt to superb specifications in engine compression and preformance, and other mechanicals on it. But it would be so good and such a novelty that the investment would probably not be returned unless a musuem or connoseur wished to purchase it. It sounds like a neat tractor...one I would have gone back and forth on for some time. But there are other tractors out there...and I tellya, I'm so wrapped up into the Whimpster (my 9N) that nothing compares!

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Ted

07-24-2000 19:43:44




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 Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 18:26:22  
My understanding, from many sources, is that the cast aluminum was used on the first several hundred (I've heard anywhere from 400 to 800) 9Ns simply in an attempt to get the machines off the assembly line as scheduled. Sheet metal dies weren't ready yet, and Charles Sorenson's son ran an aluminum foundry and could cast substitute parts on short notice. The intent was never to produce the aluminum parts long term (they were much more expensive and fragile than stamped sheet metal) but to get the assembly line rolling.

The "mishmash" of sheet metal/aluminum usually happens because somebody has broken one of the aluminum castings somewhere along the line and, since Ford replacements were sheet metal, made them fit with the aluminum parts that were left. Tractors leaving the assembly line were, to the best of my knowledge, always either all sheet metal or all cast aluminum, so if there's a mixture, it happened post-production.

By the way, how do they know that the 9N is all original and has only 50 hours on it? I hope they didn't get that information from the original 9N proofmeter! In any event, that's way under an hour a year, which is kind of hard to believe even if used for parades and shows only. Not saying it's not true, mind you, but it's still kind of hard to believe.

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9n'er

07-25-2000 01:25:59




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Ted, 07-24-2000 19:43:44  
I could have misunderstood the "50 hour" over the phone. No proofmeter on 9N's that I'm aware of...In any event, anything even less than 500 hours would be rare. Getting back to all aluminum, I have aluminum inspection plates on 31649. I agree that aluminum parts were probably replaced with steel versions over the years. I guess the only way to find out is to locate original 9N's and owners and learn about what was steel on it, and what was cast aluminum and try to sort it out. Hmmm...maybe I'll go back to school, become a professional student, and do a Doctorate Thesis on Ford 9N's, travel the country, talk to owners, research Ford archives and figure all of this out. But first, I better rebuild my checking account, and get back on track with the yard and land chores before the wife throws me and the tractor into the river.

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Tyler(MD)

07-25-2000 03:37:22




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 Re: Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-25-2000 01:25:59  
...that's the problem. Most of the original 9N owners are gone. I wish my grandfather was still around. I'd love to hear more stories about my 9N.

Tyman



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9n'er

07-25-2000 05:18:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Tyler(MD), 07-25-2000 03:37:22  
Hi Tyler. let me tellya, the site you created and the restoration you completed is top quality. Does your family have any early photo's of the tractor, or any photo's of the tractor in the background? It may show the tractor with another grill. I'm sure you have looked. I don't recall your serial number, but I remember it enough to think that it should have had either a solid center grill or cast alumium grill...but I am so far from being any type of authority, I just read, absorb, and have questions. WHy? I don't know. But I am very much interestd in the history and production of these N-Series tractors...and trying to learn more about mine and what was original and what was replaced. It seems elusive. I'm sure your Grandfather would have been very proud of the work you did on his tractor. Nothing but good can come out of that project. good work. Hey, question: your Ford and Ferguson plates on the hood and grill..are they cast aluminum or steel? I have a very old cast aluminum Ferguson name plate...but I don't know if it is original or not. It appears to be so. good to hear from you.

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Gerb

07-24-2000 19:02:53




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 Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 18:26:22  
I don't think Fords with that high a serial number had aluminum grilles or any aluminum for that matter.
From what I read, only 300 to 400 1939's had aluminum and that was because the dies for stamping steel were not ready for production.
They decided to cast aluminum in order to get production underway on time.
Gerb



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Wick,De.

07-25-2000 12:39:14




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Gerb, 07-24-2000 19:02:53  
I have 1940N 25--- it has an aluminum dash and steering box, which I might add has a big crack in it. It appears very brittle.



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9n'er

07-24-2000 19:31:55




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Gerb, 07-24-2000 19:02:53  
Hey Gerb...you know, I'm not sure we will ever know the answer. The thing about these aluminum parts is their fragility. What I'm trying to say is that, even if (as an example) #1430 did have an original aluminum hood (i know it didn't but for the sake of debate), ya never know what was replaced at a later date because the aluminum was susceptible to breaking, and Ford had a rebate for those who wanted to exchange their aluminum parts for steel parts. Unless the tractor has one owner and the owner can attest to the parts being original; this is about the only way I know that I can find the answer to my question. whatya think?

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9n'er

07-24-2000 19:16:08




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 Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to Gerb, 07-24-2000 19:02:53  
interesting...the books I have really speak to the aluminum hood assemblies...and that the first 700-900 (depending on your source) refer to the upper hood and side hood panels as cast aluminum. I read that Ford had parts cast in aluminum and used them up before going into new steel stock items from other suppliers; that may explain the mish-mash of aluminum on some later appearing tractors and all alumnum on earlier tractors. One book shows a 1940 steel hood 9N, but with aluminum grill. I saw serial number 1430 with a cast aluminum dash/battery holder, aluminum tranny cover, and aluminum grill; but hood and side panels were steel. I'm just throwing this out there to try and nail down my curiosity about this.

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rbell

07-25-2000 09:48:40




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 Re: Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-24-2000 19:16:08  
so anyone know what year the air breater intake extended straight up though the hood? There are a number of 9s with this configuration in my area.(including mine)



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9n'er

07-26-2000 05:32:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to rbell, 07-25-2000 09:48:40  
ya got me. my mid-year 40 has the vertical stack through the hood. what is your tractor serial number?



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rbell

07-26-2000 06:38:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: learned something interesting today in reply to 9n'er, 07-26-2000 05:32:39  
Its a 9, but it has a mixture of parts. The engine is a combine unit so the serial number is of no significance. Closest I can figure its a 40 or 41. Has 32 inch rears and 19 fronts. It is in pretty good mechanical shape (now) but some of the sheet metal is in sad need of replacement (hood, grille missing, right side apron custom cut for the side mount Wico magneto). It probably will never look as good as the soon to be posted pictures of yours.

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