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How to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts?

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Roger

08-15-2000 09:57:16

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Hi,

I've just went through the rear end of my 8n. It's all back together. What is a practical way to torque the rear axle nuts to 450 ft/lbs?

I've heard one suggestion of a 2" socket and a 4' cheater bar. If this works how hard do I have to tighten this up? Also, can this combination over-torque the nut?

Thanks,

Roger.

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08-15-2000 15:43:40

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

An outfit on the west coast called "Harbor Freight" has a complete set of sockets up to 2 1/2 6pt for $40.00. (!) They is from China, and kinda rough but work great on the big stuff. I put a 4ft bar horiz and pile lead pigs in a canvas bag tied to the end to get the proximate torque, just keep the bar horiz.

Zeke

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Fred OH

08-15-2000 11:14:44

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

Roger, A cheap 3/4" rattlin wrench (torque wrench) will put out about 450#s of torque. I wouldn't let it rattle too long though, regardless of what brand of socket I used. Mark it with a pencil and use it for a few days and tighten it again and see if the marks change much. If they did, do it again a while later. I always clean and oil threads and nut shoulder before torqueing. L8R----Fred

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ZANE

08-15-2000 10:33:27

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

My brother in law bought a brand new 8N in 1948. The manual that came with the tractor from Ford recommended that the nut on the rear axle be tightened as to torque specs and then every 50 hours of operation it was to be retightened to the specfications again and the locking ring put in the next tighter hole. (You know that the holes don't always align when the specified tourque is reached. After the second 50 hour retightening it was recommended that the nut be retightened again untill after 100 hours the nut could no longer be moved at the specified torque.
We never had a loose hub in about 10,000 hours of operation of the tractor. We did have to rebuild the engine in 1959 after ten years of farming with it and after I had been in the AF for 4 years learning how to work on radial engines so it was that I got the overhaul the engine the first time. It naturally had the thin steel sleeves and I put the thin cast iron sleeves back in. When it was sold at the dealership it was still just like new after a paint job and never had a loose hub.

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Dell (WA)

08-15-2000 10:32:23

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

Roger..... .Most people, unless they are inshape weight lifters (grin), have a very difficult time lifting/pulling 100 lbs. When was the last time you lifted a bail of alfalfa? about 100 lbs. Therefore, a 4' cheater bar and your best gut busting effort will probably be about 450 ft/lbs. Most torque wrenches that are capaple of 450 ft/lbs are 6' long. Basically, you probably won't over torque it but undertorqueing is guarentee to serious axle/hub wear problems. Make certain your socket fits first. 6 pointers are better than 12 pointers except that 6 pointers 1 7/8 are hard to find..... ....Dell

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Roger - archive methods, which one is best?

08-15-2000 10:28:23

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

The archives have LOTS of suggestions. Has anyone tried one or more of them and which one worked the best.

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Roger - got it. One more question

08-15-2000 10:46:50

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Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger - archive methods, which one is best?, 08-15-2000 10:28:23

OK I've got it. Please disregard previous post. I hadn't seen the replies prior to posting it.

I go about 230 lbs so a 2' bar sounds about right.

I replaced the axle/bearing/hub on the right side. The left side had a crude spacer mounted around the axle inside the hub (against the outside washer). I noticed this axle sticks out much further than the new parts on the other side. What is a good test to see if it's worn too far. I was going to try a wobble test after I have it torqued. Is there anything better?

Thanks everybody,

Roger.

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Dell (WA)

08-15-2000 11:47:24

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Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger - got it. One more question, 08-15-2000 10:46:50

Roger..... ..you'll only get 460 ft/lbs on 2' bar only if you are hanging exactly at the 2' mark and only if your bar is exactly horizontal. otherwize you must apply a correction factor of the cosine of the angle of the dangle or sumptn' like that. Gravity is funny like that. Go with the 4' cheater bar and mussel pull.

Walbble test works best unless you have a dial micrometer and jigs to measure end play and endplay don't measure on tapered splined hubs, you'll have to measure radial and a whole bunch of triginometric factors. Naw....fergitaboutit..... ..Dell

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bobeque

08-15-2000 10:09:34

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

Roger: It ain't pretty, but a good sized pipe wrench and a 4'x1 l/2" pipe comes about as close as you can without a $100 socket and handle. I don't think you will over torque it. Also get one of the two-part lock nuts for about $15. Tighten 'em both down just short of standing on the pipe and you'll be safe. L2U

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Nolan

08-15-2000 10:09:14

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

Torque is measured as force applied across a lever arm, hence things like 450 ftlb. That's
a force of 450 lbs on a foot long lever. Make the lever two feet long, and you only have to put a force of 225lb on the end of it (2x225=450).

Ok, using that math formula (force x lever length = torque) you can figure out how long a lever you need to stand on so that your body weight creates the 450 ft lb of torque.

For example, say you weigh 170lbs. Mathmatically that's 170 X length = 450 ftlb. Do a little algebra, and we get 450/170 = length. Answer is, 2.6 feet, or about 32 inches. So put a cheater bar on your ratchet or breaker bar, position it horizontally, and stand on it 32 inches out from the socket. Wala! 450 ftlb of torque.

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Claus

08-15-2000 10:05:58

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Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Roger, 08-15-2000 09:57:16

I have a 2 foot bar and I weigh 225 lbs.. so if I put my weight on the end of the bar you have approximately 450... If you use a 4 foot bar you need to put approximately 115 lbs... This is not critical... or shorten the cheater bar to accomodate your weight. Example if you have a 3 foot bar, you would divide 450 by 3 giving you 150 lbs etc..
Happy Motoring
Claus

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Sam (Mo.)

08-15-2000 18:39:39

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Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Claus, 08-15-2000 10:05:58

Now that's something I never heard before! If it's right, that's a handy thing to know. You're saying that if you divide the desired foot/pounds of torque by the length of the wrench lever in feet, you get the pounds of pressure you need to apply on the end of the lever to deliver that torque.

It sounds reasonable, but where did that come from? Is it something that's generally known, and I just missed it somehow? Lemme know, someone.

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norm-wy

08-15-2000 21:17:18

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Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Sam (Mo.), 08-15-2000 18:39:39

Sam(MO)
Torque is specified as so many foot pounds. This number is arrived at by multipling the amount of force you exert times the length of the handle (wrench, cheater etc) being used. If you need 800 ft. lbs of torque you can get it by pulling on a 8 ft handle with 100lbs of force, or pulling on a 4 ft handle with 200 lbs of force or 400lbs on a 2 ft handle or 800 lbs on a 1 ft handle. Just multiply the force times the length. FWIW

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Fred OH

08-15-2000 20:53:14

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Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Sam (Mo.), 08-15-2000 18:39:39

Yes Sam, you missed it somehow. So if you had a quarter inch ratchet (Sears) that is six inches long and you put your 225 pounds on it, how much torque would you have on the bolt?
L8R----Fred

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Sam (Mo.)

08-15-2000 21:23:34

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Re: Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Fred OH, 08-15-2000 20:53:14

95 lbs. torque - 'cause I "only" weigh 190! (chuckle)

That's a nifty formula to know, and I'm glad to learn something. Thanks, guys.

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Dell (WA)

08-16-2000 07:55:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Sam (Mo.), 08-15-2000 21:23:34

Sam..... .that 190 multiplied by 1/2 foot (0.5) equals 380 ft/lbs, which means you have to apply more force to create 190 ft/lbs torque than with a 1 foot bar, with a 2 foot bar you lever the effect of 95 pounds of force to create the necessary torque of 190 ft/lbs.

I personally don't think that lil' ol' 1/4" drive Sears Socket Wrench will take it, despite their guarentees. (grin)

I spent hours and hours (before the days of pocket calculators) doing torque calculations, moments of inertia, lever arms, etc in college Physics 101. And I seem to recollect this great looking teacher in the 9th grade science class teaching something about levers, but that was 50 years ago..... ..Dell

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Claus

08-16-2000 10:41:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Dell (WA), 08-16-2000 07:55:18

Dell:
That is what I have been using on my tractor. I put 900 lbs on my 1/4" 6" long ratchet. I am on my 51st ratchet already and I think Sears is tired of replacing them. Thank you for figuring out my problem.
Thanks again.
Claus

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Fred OH

08-17-2000 05:28:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how to get 450 lbs torque on rear axle nuts? in reply to Claus, 08-16-2000 10:41:46

How to put 900#s on your 1/4" Sears ratchet without hurting it. Run over it with your rear tractor tire. L8R----Fred

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