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Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...?

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9N'er

10-21-2000 17:42:55




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I'll be honest...this problem is for my 850. Carb: Marvin Schebler TSX 706. I posted same questions on the Ford Forum above, it takes awhile, or no response. This forum is very good for prompt help.

I'm getting a flame-out backfire out of the carb air inlet. it wants to fire-up,chugs (barely), but it sputters and dies.

Could this also be a timing issue?

New points, wires, condensor, plugs, cap, switch, ampeter, etc.

When I put the distributor back on, I didn't check the timing TDC etc.

Carb is blowing fuel out the air inlet too.

Insights? Has anyone had this problem...and what was the cause and how was it fixed? I plan to rebuild the carb (again) tomorrow...

I'll refrain form future 100 series postings here...but I've been trying for three days to get this tractor to fire up once again. Apologies yet, many thanks too. 9N'er

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9n'er...funny thing happened...go figure?!

10-22-2000 00:30:53




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 Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-21-2000 17:42:55  
Funny thing happened to me...while wanting to do the repairs on this old girl..I couldn't stand to see rust working under the gauges, and the wrong paint color...so, I am now in the process of restoring the hood, dash, sheet metal...on top of problem solving...

seems to me, that's what started my 9n resto.

just wanted to get it started, 4 months later she's a trailer queen...front to back. oh no, here I go again!

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John in Abq

10-21-2000 20:11:23




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 Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-21-2000 17:42:55  
Had pretty much exact same problem on my 851. When I went to put new wires on the cap, I assumed the #1 terminal marking meant something. It meant several hours of misery! For whatever reason the real #1 terminal on my tractor is 90 degrees CCW from what is marked on the cap (next terminal to the left). When I made that change it fired up in about 2 seconds!

I'm still doing battle with my carb on flooding out. But that's another long story.

John

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9N'er

10-21-2000 23:51:03




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 Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to John in Abq, 10-21-2000 20:11:23  
I suspect I have atleast two wrong spark plug wires possibly three out of sequence. I also couldn't figure out, form the Vintage wiring 6v diagram, what was #1 on the cap. I do know it is 1-2-4-3 order. I'll take a closer look again today. thanks!



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walt

10-21-2000 20:33:49




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 Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to John in Abq, 10-21-2000 20:11:23  
I got a 2000(63), just a smaller carb then yours, took me 5 tries to get my float adjusted so it wouldnt flood.



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Chuck (CA)

10-21-2000 18:19:10




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 Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-21-2000 17:42:55  
Hey 850'er,
It just about has to be a timing or cross wiring.
And my gut feeling is timing.
Start by removing #1 spark plug. Have your incredibly patient and understsanding wife tap the starter while you hold your thumb over the spark plug hole. When your thumb is pushed out because of pressure, have your saint of a wife stop bumping the starter. (BTW, you've disconnected your coil wire, haven't you?). This will be TDC for #1 cylinder, more or less. Line up the dots on your crank with your pulley. Now you're on TDC. Make sure your rotor lines up with # 1 on your distributor cap. I'll bet you a can of Keystone that's your problem. I was going to bet a bottle of Chivas Regal , but Mrs. Chuck (CA) got out her skillet. If it isn't, check your firing order. Keep us posted and let's hope you won't have the ordeal you had of restoring the Whimpster.
Chuck (CA)

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9N'er

10-22-2000 00:06:11




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 Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to Chuck (CA), 10-21-2000 18:19:10  
Chuck: can you provide a little more insight about the dots on the crank pulley? and lining them up. I may also be able to find TDC by hand turning the fan/pulley correct?

I don't have an I@T for this...but I can borrow a service manual today.

A keystone sounds pretty good! believe me, i've been at this off and on for three straight days... I'll have a celebration Keystone (Argggh!) if this starts and runs! Hate to see the wife chasin you with a skillet...she is much happier sitting next to a warm woodstove...right Chuck? ;)

Oh, the WHimpster? She's been running like a champ since I sorted through the problem and worked out the electrial bugs. Fires right up, runs great...have confidence in her now...til the next obscure problem. Boy, what a slight hair puller it is when these old tractors quit and die...but oh, what a feeling when I can sort through the problems re-do some things equal to new or better, and hear it fire up! nothing beats that feeling!

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Chuck (CA)

10-22-2000 05:17:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-22-2000 00:06:11  
I'm just assuming there are 2 dots; one on the crank pulley and one on the cam pulley.. not knowing the 850 upclose and personal, I may be wrong. I thought it was sort of generic tho. You can line them up by turning the engine by hand after the thumb test. The pressure pushing your thumb away indicates both valves are closed meaning TDC. (If you just line the dots up without being reasonbly sure you're near TDC, you could be 180 off.) Then look and see where the rotor is pointing. That WILL be #1. Then check your firing order. You also want to make sure you put the wires in the proper sequence of how the distributor turns. Clockwise, I would think.

I'm really going to get that stove finished now. It's at the top of my Honey Do list. The air is turning crisp and the thought of a nice woodstove is enticing. We only heat by wood and our fireplace insert just doesn't quite send the heat to the kitchen adequately. Our old house was built in the 1920's and on a windy day you can fly a kite in our living room. When we bought this old place, we thought it had some character. 14 years later, the character has turned into one problem after another. There's something to be said for updated electricity and plumbing.... some day we'll have it all fixed. Yeah, right.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Chuck

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walt

10-21-2000 17:59:02




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 Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-21-2000 17:42:55  
Backfire sounds like timing. But I'll ask the stupid question. You didnt miswire your plugs? I've done it.



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Truck

10-21-2000 17:57:18




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 Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to 9N'er, 10-21-2000 17:42:55  
Hmm.. CHeck firing order and distributor timing...
Did this start right after the tune up or was it a problem before it ?
My 600 also shoots gas out of the carb on occasion. It is VERY tired.But it will start. For some reason I keep clogging up the fuel supply and have to pressurize the tank ( By mouth, NOT air compressor) to get it to go. When it is really cantankerous, it sometimes helps to give it a puff of carb cleaner while cranking.It seems healthier for it than ether.
Any time you have a backfire out of the carb, check spark is occurring at the correct time and the correct firing order.It also can be caused by burnt valves, but then it will crank easy on that cylinder and just plain sound weird. If you disconnect the coil wire and crank it should crank evenly, but if you hear one easy cylinder and three harder ones you might want to do a compression check.
Hey I know.. I'll come up to NH and get it going fer ya in return fer your grille!Nah, I'd have to rebuild the engine to buy it!:-)
Let us know how it turns out.

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9n'er

10-22-2000 00:25:56




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 Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to Truck, 10-21-2000 17:57:18  
This whole thing started last Sunday. Fired it up, she ran for 10-15 seconds...and then abruptly died. No spark at plugs.

Looked like connections broke, the old terminal block was broke, and two connections were dangling in air. And all of a sudden gas pouring out of carb...two problems occuring simultaneously...just my luck! oh, what fun now!

The wires were old, frayed, breaking, and rotting.

So I rewired it...all new wires and connections. Replaced ignition lock, old and broken terminal block, rusted old non functioning ammmeter, coil, points, cap, plugs...(rusted, and black soot), all new gauges: proofmeter, oil, and temp gauge; stripped dash and lower dash, filled sanded, filled, sanded, filled sanded, primed, sanded, filled, sanded, primed, sanded, filled....oh, the dash unit is looking excellent once again... rebuilt carb...but no luck..still flooding out.

Thanks for the tip on Carb cleaner! been using ether... that stuff is wicked strong.

ANy decent diagram on the i-net for the cap? so I can determine #1 on it? See my post to Chuck(ca)...walk me through timing and timing marks?? This will be new ground for me...the 9N has no timing marks!

The grille! oh it's nice...best one I've ever seen. Willing to trade it for something too. Thank you for your post! tom

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9n'er

10-22-2000 00:19:55




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 Re: Re: Flame-out, chugging, sputtering...and dead...? in reply to Truck, 10-21-2000 17:57:18  
This whole thing started last Sunday. Fired it up, she ran for 10-15 seconds...and then abruptly died. No spark at plugs.

Looked like connections broke, the old terminal block was broke, and two connections were dangling in air. And all of a sudden gas pouring out of carb...two problems occuring simultaneously...just my luck! oh, what fun now!

The wires were old, frayed, breaking, and rotting.

So I rewired it...all new wires and connections. Replaced ignition lock, old and broken terminal block, rusted old non functioning ammmeter, coil, points, cap, plugs...(rusted, and black soot), all new gauges: proofmeter, oil, and temp gauge; stripped dash and lower dash, filled sanded, filled, sanded, filled sanded, primed, sanded, filled, sanded, primed, sanded, filled....oh, the dash unit is looking excellent once again... rebuilt carb...but no luck..still flooding out.

Thanks for the tip on Carb cleaner! been using ether... that stuff is wicked strong.

ANy decent diagram on the i-net for the cap? so I can determine #1 on it? See my post to Chuck(ca)...walk me through timing and timing marks?? This will be new ground for me...the 9N has no timing marks!

The grille! oh it's nice...best one I've ever seen. Willing to trade it for something too. Thank you for your post! tom

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