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Before I replace my coil

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Ole WI

02-01-2002 10:50:28




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I spent the last 2 days going through the many posts regarding 6 volt front mount coils(Sure are a lot of them). Based on what I have learned from this great board I think my coil may be bad but I am not 100% sure. So here I go (take it easy on me): I have just reassembled my completely rebuilt engine on my 49 8N. It is a 6 volt front mount system. I did not skimp on anything but have not been sucessful in getting it to start. Distributor, although not new, has been completely cleaned and reinstalled with new points, condenser, cap and rotor and timed/adjusted per the FO4 manual. I have rebuilt the carb. Installed a new wire harness, new plug wires,new plugs, new 2 gage battery cables and a new 6 volt battery. Cranks like a son of a gun and I get sparkies out of the plugs when removed and grounded to the block but no pop even with starting fluid. Per Dell, I measured DC volts at the coil terminal with the points closed at approx. 2.5 volts and 6 + with the points open.
Is there anything else I may be missing here which may cause the coil voltage to be too low other than the coil itselt? I truly beleive that the low coil voltage is the reason for the no start. The tractor ran last May before I tore it down. Can a coil go bad laying in a box and not being used?
Sorry for the long post.

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Dell (WA)

02-01-2002 16:21:51




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Ole..... .."Cranks like a son of a gun", kinda sounds like no compression. Check your compression, even a new, unbroken engine should be up around 110-120 psi, my guess yer gonna read down around 77-80 psi.

Unfortunately, theres been a rash of recent rebuilds affected with incorrect camshaft gear index marking. Its rather obvious if'n yer looking fer it.

If'n your compression is low like I suspect, yer gonnna haffta take both the cylinder head and the timing gear cover off and visually inspect the position of the #1 valves both closed and the #1 piston TDC.

You'll have to manually crank the camshaft around so that BOTH #1 valves are closed (cross-check both #4 valve open) You can tell by feeling the action of the valves with your fingers. REMOVE the camshaft gear.

Now manually crank yer crankshaft until #1 cylinder is TDC with the index next to where the camgear (thats not installed right now) should be. NOW INSTALL the miss-indexed camshaft gear without moving anything. NOTE: the indexes will not match up if'n yer doin it right like I tell you.

Now then, once ya gotts everything TDC'd, valves seated, piston TDC, drill a new index mark on the camshaft gear soes the next poor mechanic has a fightin' chance.

As I say, the camshaft/crankshaft miss-timing is rather OBVIOUS if'n yer lookin' fer it..... ...Dell

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Dave in Iowa

02-01-2002 14:18:09




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Ole,

Glad to here your ok. I heard of an Ole who was shot up near the Canandian border. Seemed he had taken his N right up near the border and was cutting down some trees for fire wood. The Border Patrol came over a rise near him and when they saw him they shouted,"What's your name, and what are you doing up here?"

"Ole...been loggin"

Bang!



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Ya - You know why dey did that???

02-01-2002 18:52:13




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 Re: Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Dave in Iowa, 02-01-2002 14:18:09  
Thats because them two scandahoovian terrorists Ole and Sven Binladenstrom in what was clearly a copy-cat terrorist act hijacked the Goodyear blimp. At last count they had bounced it off five buildings.

Okay - I know I have a warped sense of humor..

Paul Haas



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being 1/2 Norwegian, I can appreciate this...ha!

02-01-2002 21:23:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ya - You know why dey did that???, 02-01-2002 18:52:13  
On a serious side about the "real" Sven and Ole....I remember a tv documentary that covered a story about a small group of Norwegians during WWII that had sunk a shipload of German-made "heavy water" in some alpine lake. The Germans were working on building "The Bomb" somewhere up in some mountains. This sucess set back the Germans quite a bit on their progress. Good thing.

Forgotten heros...so many of them.

Dave 50 8N

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Jim(fl)

02-01-2002 14:08:27




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
As the other have suggested - I'm not convinced this is a sparkie problem. I am leaning toward asking you to check the timing as ERRIN has sugguested. If this is a "complete" rebuild, how confident are you of the correct cam-crank gear relative positions - while you are checking the TDC position for correct dist timeing - pull the valve cover plates and double check the correct valve action in relation to TDC.

Good Luck, Jim

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Phil (AZ)

02-01-2002 13:36:27




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Ole, The 2.5V is about right but you can make some
other measurements that have meaning.

Measure across the Ballast Resister (one probe on each Side)

With The Point Open = 0.0000v (this is very important and means the circuit is open)

With Points Closed = ~ 3.5 but not lower than 3.0v (in your Case)

K-Law: VD of Ballast + Coil + Other = Applied Voltage ( 3.5 + 2.7 +.4 = 6.5V

If that is all correct than you have the right amount of current in primary of coil and your
problem is in the secondary (HI Voltage)

Replace Condenser. This slows down(prevents arcing) and the rise time of hi voltage, it also is responsible for 3rd & 5th harmonic energy.

Hope This Helps,

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TractorMike

02-01-2002 12:46:43




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Ole, Make sure your spark plug wires are in the right fireing order. TractorMike



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Claus

02-01-2002 12:32:47




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
The voltage at the top of the coil will depend somewhat on the temperature of the ballast resistor. If it sits there for a while with the points closed, it could conceivably be in the range that you measure. As the temperature of the ballast element increases, the voltage on the coil will decrease. Look for fuel, timing and compression problems as others have noted.
Happy Motoring
Claus



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Errin OH

02-01-2002 12:03:15




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Timing? If'n she will not run on starting fuild and has sparkies, all that left is compression and timing. Bring #1 up to TDC (compression stroke) and see where the rotor is point'n. Pref at # 1 plug wire. BTW have you done a compression test?



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Danny in CO

02-01-2002 11:49:45




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
Ole,

2.5 volts at the coil with the points closed is too low. You should have about 3.5 volts with the points closed. I would look at the wires and electrical connections from the battery to the coil. You need "clean, bright, and tight" (quote from Dell) connections. Wires to check are:

1. From starter to ampmeter.
2. From ampmeter to terminal block.
3. From terminal block to switch.
4. Bypass switch.
5. Switch to ballast resistor.
6. Ballast resistor to coil.

If you still have original wires, you may want to consider rewiring it.

HTH,
Danny

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ED-Illinois

02-01-2002 11:34:53




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 Re: Before I replace my coil in reply to Ole WI, 02-01-2002 10:50:28  
give it a shot of ether - if it runs on that, then it is a fuel problem. There are three screens to keep clean.

ideally, 3.2 volts at coil with points closed, but my 2N starts well with only 2.6

check the plugs - are they wet? she may be flooding. Try starting it with the fuel shut off - it should run for about a minute with what is in he line and carb.

also try taking the cup off of the air cleaner - maybe you are restricting too much air with the colder temps in the air these days.

coils go bad more often than not - I keep a spare laying around, but you said that you have sparks - if they are bright and blue, then your coil is good enough to start it up.

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