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N Practicality?

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AndyB

02-03-2002 08:04:29




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Well...this may be a controversial post but here goes!

After a few weeks of tinkering and tweaking (and swearing), and a measly $75 or so in parts/labor later, I've finally got my '47 2N back up and running to it's almost "normal" level from this past summer. I finally called up a local "expert" to take a look - turns out it was a slew of electrical problems that by themselves didn't amount to the trouble, but all added up they caused poor to no power / surging engine / unable to run. Whoever converted the beast to a 12V system used some ultimately questionable materials: standard automotive 12V coil connected to a "hollowed out" N coil using a 3' long composite plug wire. End diagnosis - compression was blowing out a weak spark. We finally bypassed the "wrong parts" and installed a correct 12V coil (after buying a new auto type with no luck), new points / condenser, and adjusted the carb (after removing, cleaning, and replacing at least three times).

Anyways - here's the controversy. In the analysis by the "expert" it was determined that compression on the number 3 cylinder is quite low and the new "knock" I am hearing is possibly a cracked piston at #3 which may explain the low compression as well as the small amount of "exhaust" from the oil breather/filler tube.

The estimate from locals: $1000 to have the motor refurbed, or $600 for parts and my blood, sweat, and tears. To add to that the front seal leaks like a seive and I loose a quart (or more) of hydraulic fluid each time I mow the 5 acres, as well as the hydraulic pump/piston needs to be overhauled to bring it up to snuff. All of these extras amount to quite a bit more $$$ and or time/effort - not to mention the tractor is out of comission during the overhaul.

Now I realize that the tractor is 50+ years old, and I actually enjoy the "work" it requires to maintain it - but at what point does one say it's time to move on? Can an "N" really perform everything on a daily basis reliably. We really could use a front loader to move/turn manure piles. Live hydraulics / PTO functionality would be nice especially when digging post holes - can't lift/move the digger without spinning because the PTO must be running in order for the pump to spin so that the lift arms lift....nothing new to everyone!!! Do I keep the 2N and use it for an over-glorified lawn mower and do the other chores with "big red's" (the nickname ny duaghters have givin it) assistance at best? Do I trade in or upgrade to a newer "yesterday's tractor" like a Jubilee...? Do I bite the bullet by doing the American thing and go in to debt with a new New Holland/Massey Ferguson/Kubota that covers all bases and is reliable/easy enough to use so my wife can do everything our "spread" neads while I'm traveling for work 60%-80% of the time?

I know these are all loaded questions, I guess I'm just looking for some feedback - I'm sure I'm not the only one who has gone through this.

Thanks in advance,

Andy.

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Dave 50 8N

02-04-2002 13:32:29




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Andy,

My neighbor recently bought an East Indian 4wd, ps, front loader 3 cyl diesel tractor for like $10k. Sold through a US dealer.

I love my N, but can't imagine the wife muscling it around.

Since you're travelling and wife needs to run the tractor (am I correct?), you might consider the new tractor.

I'd keep the N...it's not worth the few $$ to sell it.

good luck!



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RB/CT

02-04-2002 15:30:36




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 Re: Re: N Practicality? in reply to Dave 50 8N, 02-04-2002 13:32:29  
I have a couple of friends from India. Yes they do run Ghandi-Marts. Another runs a restored 66 Good Humor ice cream truck in a big mall. I did not realize it, but there are many farms in India. They speak highly of the tractors built and used there. I thought TAFE is made there, but there are several manufacturers. According to them, the tractors are good. Another thing there is there prisons. They are hard. Which is why in the US you see very few Indian people arrested. Thanks.

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Lotsa good advice

02-04-2002 10:24:05




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Andy,
lotsa good advice has been given, here's my take. You know you gotta spend some dough right? If you don't have the dough in yer pocket, you're gonna go in debt for it right? Probably to the tune of 15-20K by the time you throw a new implement or two at your new rig. Yes, it might be nice not to have mud flyin' when you pull the auger up, but how many times in 5 years are you gonna dig post holes in the rain? (assuming 5yr. note on the tractor). Save up or borrow 3-4K, get your N thoroughly refurbished (paint not required), and your outta debt in 6 months and good for another 50yrs! If you lose your job and had to sell that new machine (at a guaranteed loss), you then have squat. The N will run a lot longer for less. That debt/worry thing will take years off your life man, and burn you in the end! Do the right thing.

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TimK

02-04-2002 08:34:26




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Frankly, an N that has been neglected will throw just about every type of problem there is at you. But once those things are fixed, it's a pretty reliable machine. Now, around NW Indiana, I don't know of a single machine its size with a 3 pt. hitch that you can get for around $2500. If you want live hydraulics, live PTO and a machine with power steering to handle a front loader, you are going to pay a lot more. My $.02

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Dave Smith

02-04-2002 05:07:06




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Andy,If it is not a financial burden, keep the N and get a newer tractor that will do what you need. I know how tough that can be when you are raising a family and need money for other things. I have had many things that I sold or traded for what I needed at the time (A lot of guns) and was sorry in later years that I had gotten rid of them and wished I had them back. I am sure some of the other old coots here have done the same thing. If you can keep the N and just maintain it enough to keep it going. Then in 5, 10 or 15 years from now you might have the money and time to give it a complete restoration and it will mean a lot more to you. I sure wish I had that Winchester 25 X 20 with the hex barrel that was Uncle Herms.
Dave <*)))><

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gatractorman

02-04-2002 03:29:34




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Hey Andy, sounds like someone didn't maintain this tractor properly and it may take a little time and $$$ to bring it back, but after you get it back it should do whatever you ask of it (within reason LOL) live hyd. would be nice and I think Zane is working on a fix for this. But it all boils down to your frustration factor with this tractor if you like it fix it if not look for something else but I dont believe a new tractor will be around in 50+ yrs.

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R.M. In Al

02-03-2002 18:20:43




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
I think I agree with Bill.You can get a good 801 and also repair the N both for $7000.That is the best of the best. Have a good week everyone.



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MikeC

02-03-2002 14:57:31




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
These tractors are as much a labor of love as practicality. I enjoy working on my N, and I enjoy the waves from people driving by as I am mowing. Economically I have spent more than the tractor is worth, however the learning experience and the therapy it has provided far exceed the amount of money I have spent on it. I would consider a more modern tractor to serve your day to day needs, but keep the N around for mowing and relaxation...

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Ron/Pa

02-03-2002 14:53:52




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Well this might be a poor answer to your post, but it will be an honest one, from my point of view. Here in central Pa. we farm 200 acres, we raise beef, hogs, corn and hay. We do this with 4 tractors, a 9n, 8n, farmall H, and an allis wd. Most of these machines are older than me. We traded our JD B on our 9n in the late 60's and we have used it ever since. Having said all that,I think that the only one that can answer your question is you. You will never know how often we think about buying a newer tractor and some years we can do so. It all comes down to what do we want, and what do we need??
These fords will work all day every day, and we use them that way. However, how many newer machines do you know of that will operate for 50-60 years and actually do the work they were intended to do?
Consider all your options, and your needs, then compare them to your wishes and finances. If you want to work, what are your needs? If you want to play at working, what are your checkbook and wife willing to let you purchase. (GRIN)
Ron/Pa

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Dave Todd

02-03-2002 16:45:23




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 Re: Re: N Practicality? in reply to Ron/Pa, 02-03-2002 14:53:52  
Fantastic!! You are using the old Fords for farming today. I enjoyed your thoughts, and must say, I agree with them.
Dave



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Bill in Orono, MN

02-03-2002 09:57:57




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Wanna sell it?

I too was seduced by the call of a new tractor. However, the 15 thou it would cost made it all the easier. So you sink cash into it? Why else would a 50+ yr old still be running? Besides, you can pick up a 801 for less than 5 thou and then, the best of all possible outcomes, you have two tractors.



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KCM

02-03-2002 09:19:25




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
My $0.02: Sounds like you answered your own question with the front loader and post hole digger. If you need live power and a front loader, it's probably time to trade up to a newer 100 series Ford that can handle a front end loader, especially for heavy manure, and still mow your grass. Either sell the 9N as is and give it another loving home or trade it in on a newer model. Unless you still would like to keep it to tinker with, especially if you can't get much out of it with a bad engine.

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terry

02-03-2002 09:07:27




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
I had a newer tractor it was nice till the first time it broke down less than a year after I had it,you can try to fix them yourself but it sure is no where as easy to work on as these old n's are. Oh by the way the shop bill to fix that supposly reliable tractor was 600.00 it was also a ford but it had a rice burner engine so parts had to be shipped in took 3 weeks for parts, my suggestion is stick with what you have as it will never go down in value only up. My newer one that I paid 13,000 for was only worth 8,000 2 years later talk about a losing proposition.

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JimNC

02-03-2002 08:44:47




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Andy, To answer one question- Yes the N can do all the things you ask it to do on your "spread". The one I have now work for 20 yrs. on 40 acres in IN on dads farm. Not much done to it in that time but oil changes and irregular maintainence. It mowed,scraped a 1/4 mile drive, pushed snow,skidded trees, among other things. Now I have it. It is spread all over the place. I figure about $3000 in parts,$2500 worth of My blood, sweat and tears, I should have a really good ride. It will not be a show horse, but a good working tractor. And if I do regular maint. to it I will be able to pass one fine tractor down to my son for him to use. He is 3 now and is/will be helping put her back together. Were both having fun. He wants it going worse than I do.

I did not answer you Q: much but hope this helps make a good choice.

JimNC

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Dell (WA)

02-03-2002 08:40:43




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Andy..... ...trade it in on a newer tractor with all the bells and whistles that you think you need.

Heres the deal. Its the economics of it. Right now, ya gotts about a $1500 tractor thats worth about $1000. Ya sinks $1500 for engine rebuild, its new worth is about $2000. Yer still $500 innna hole.

Of course, there is the "therapeutic" value of doing it yourself..... ....Dell



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Bob in NY

02-03-2002 08:37:22




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  

Whew! Luckily I don't have to make that kind of decision with my 2N, as it is a glorified lawn mower / snow plow. BUT I am required to have an operating vehicle for work, as I'm on the road daily.I put 35-40K on a vehicle annually, and can't be without one. I've had to make decisions whether to put money into a losing battle, or start new. You said you are away a lot, and would be nice to have something your wife could use. I bite my tongue, and put in my 2 cents, if you can spring for a bigger & better, go for it. Reasoning- time is precious. You might not have the time to mess with the "N" when the chips are down and the it is needed to do work or you will fall behind. Get something that will work with you, not against you. Peace of mind is very valuable. That will hopefully give you more time for: 1.) your wife 2.)your "away" work 3.)tinkering, at your newly found "leisure-time", on your "N"....so you can have fun mowing those 5 acres. I only get to have fun on 2 acres. My slant on the matter. Good luck. Bob in NY

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Vic

02-03-2002 08:21:12




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 Re: N Practicality? in reply to AndyB, 02-03-2002 08:04:29  
Have you considered a third alternative? Rather than fix every problem as it pops up and spend very little money, or spend a ton of money to buy a new machine, have you considered having your tractor remanufactured by N Complete? You still won't have live PTO or hydraulics, but you will keep your trusty tractor (which will be a whole lot trustier for a lot of years), it'll look like new, have a warranty, and will cost a lot less than one of the new machines.

It will likely last a lot longer too. N tractors were so overengineered that most of them are still running strong after half a century, which is a lot more that you'll ever be able to say about that shiny new Kubota. Same goes for parts availability.

Maybe it comes down to the need for the newer bells and whistles for you, but there are other intangibles. I don't know if you've got a son, but I'd sure rather leave mine some historic American iron than an pile of offshore orange sheet metal.

The usual disclaimer.....I have no connection with N Complete. I've just seen some of their work.

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EDDIE8N

02-03-2002 08:34:13




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 Re: Re: N Practicality? in reply to Vic, 02-03-2002 08:21:12  
Andy,
you are only feeling the same things that we all have at one time or another.
The only right answer is the one that makes you the happiest.
Personally, I love working on my tractor. If I didn't have it to work on I would buy something else to take up space in my garage. I consider the time spent on turning wrenches as therapy because it helps me relax and gives me something better to do than watching TV all the time.
Just my $.02
EDDIE8N

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RB/CT

02-03-2002 08:34:02




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 Re: Re: N Practicality? in reply to Vic, 02-03-2002 08:21:12  
Your dealing with the issue of if its economically rebuildable. When you restore something, you it must be a labor of love, and you must plan to keep it forever. I've restored lots of antiques, and most times, you won't be able to get your money back. Which is why you keep it, or put it in the corner of the barn and revisit it later. Too bad their isn't a modern day replacement for the N. The closet thing I've found size wise if the Kubota L3000F, two whell drive for about 11k new.

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Bill

02-03-2002 09:09:34




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 Re: Re: Re: N Practicality? in reply to RB/CT, 02-03-2002 08:34:02  
HI,
I have a 2n iused for years that grandpop bought in47 and dad used had a fresh engine 10 yrs ago
new hydo workand can do it all.How ever as my Hobby farm expands Ive bought a Kubuta
L3000 and love it 4wd loader ect so the anwser is yes and no not to much help huh..... ..



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