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Guru's, answer me this. ;-)

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Arne

02-21-2002 18:12:12




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Why does my 6VDC battery read negative (-) voltage when checked + to +, - to - with my Fluke?

It appears that a positive ground ain't.

Arne




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Chris(MI)

02-22-2002 05:24:26




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
I quoting from the instruction manual of my meter. "When you measure DC voltages, the minus sign appears if you connect the black test probe to a point in the circuit that has a higher voltage potential than the point where you connect the red test lead"

Chris



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ZANE

02-22-2002 04:39:10




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
You may have inadvertently charged your battery in reverse making the positive negative and the negative positive.

Don't scoff! I have done it and I have seen it done.

It will ruin the battery if you leave it this way and the battery will be very inneficient but it will operate and it will charge backwards if the generator is polarized backwards along with the battery.

To correct just put some load on the battery such as lights etc. (not ignition) and leave it on over night to completely discharge the battery then recharge the battery in the right polarity and repolarize the generator. The battery my never be the same but it might. Hard to tell.

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Thanks Zane, I'm buying a new battery

02-22-2002 07:18:12




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 Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to ZANE, 02-22-2002 04:39:10  
I don't think it's worth the risk. This one seemed funky from the get-go.

Arne



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Dell (WA)

02-21-2002 21:09:09




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
Arne..... ....The curse of modern digital "no think" automatic meters.

As a check. Measure directly across your battery terminals, they are correctly marked and by virture of chemical reaction can only be certain polarity. With your digital meters "positive" lead on the battery + terminal and your meters "negative" lead on the battery - terminal, you meter should read a POSITIVE battery volts.

This has NOTHING to do with positive or negative ground which is a physical connection of the battery terminals.

In the olden days of analog meters, If'n the meter needle tried to go "off-scale" the other way, you physically switched you meter leads.

In a digital meter, the A-D converter floats the reading and the internal battery reference provides a sign function on the digital meter face. (all auto-magical). and you don't have to swap the meter leads to get an "on-scale" reading, just pay attention to your polarity sign.

Howsomever, we are blessed with a starter that doesn't care, positive or negative ground, still turns the same way. Same thing 6 or the faster turning 12 volts, doesn't care.

Of course, there are those amoung us that are electrically challenged and find the simple mental gymanistics too confusing. SWAP THE LEADS..... ....respectfully, Dell

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That's what I'm doin'

02-21-2002 21:37:31




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 Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Dell (WA) , 02-21-2002 21:09:09  
Dell Wrote:
Arne..... ....The curse of modern digital "no think" automatic meters.

As a check. Measure directly across your battery terminals, they are correctly marked and by virture of chemical reaction can only be certain polarity. With your digital meters "positive" lead on the battery + terminal and your meters "negative" lead on the battery - terminal, you meter should read a POSITIVE battery volts. >>

Dell, That's what I'm doing and what prompted me to post. It is reading NEGATIVE battery volts. As Sparky said, maybe I have somehow polarized the system incorrectly? I know I did jump it wrong when I first got it.

Arne

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Dell (WA)

02-21-2002 23:58:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to That's what I'm doin', 02-21-2002 21:37:31  
Arne..... ..do the digital meter polarity check with a regular 1-1/2 volt flashlight drycell. (any size) Center post is positive and other end is negative.

POLARIZATION has nuttin to do with meter readings.

Now then, there have been occasions when the electrically illerate have completely discharged a wetcell battery and actually recharged it "reversed polarity" with a big battery charger. But you can't do that with a tractor generator.

If'n ya can't get yer fancy automatic digital meter to read correct drycell polarity, have a consulatation with someone that is electrically experienced and make certain yer doin it correctly..... ..Dell

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Electrically Inexperienced, Moi?

02-22-2002 07:24:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Dell (WA), 02-21-2002 23:58:16  
Dell,

I know what I am doing here. I measured the jump batt just to make sure my meter wasn't acting goofy or that I was crazy. This battery is bassackwards. I am going to buy a new battery, disconnect the reg, install the new batt and then poloarize the system. Does that sound like a good plan?

Arne



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Dell (WA)

02-22-2002 07:49:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Electrically Inexperienced, Moi?, 02-22-2002 07:24:58  
Arne..... ..ya had me worried thar fer awhile..... .I like yer new plan..... .Dell



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On second thought

02-22-2002 07:42:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Electrically Inexperienced, Moi?, 02-22-2002 07:24:58  
What I meant to say is while I don't know what I am doing on this 'ol tractor, I DO know how to read and use a meter. :-)

Thanks for the help everyone of you! This board is an awesome resource.

Arne



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Electrically Inexperienced, Moi?

02-22-2002 07:24:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Dell (WA), 02-21-2002 23:58:16  
Dell,

I know what I am doing here. I measured the jump batt just to make sure my meter wasn't acting goofy or that I was crazy. This battery is bassackwards. I am going to buy a new battery, disconnect the reg, install the new batt and then poloarize the system. Does that sound like a good plan?

Arne



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Stand on the other side...

02-21-2002 19:46:04




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
and turn the meter over.;-)



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Paul8n

02-21-2002 19:35:43




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
With your dvm hook the leads up and if you get a neg. sign then reverse your leads and you'll get rid of it.

As far as jumping you are still hooking pos to pos and neg to neg to do the jump. This will not cause the starter to turn backwards. Wether it is pos ground or neg ground the battery doesn't care, it is only the return link, so to speak.



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Paul8n

02-21-2002 19:07:36




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 Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne, 02-21-2002 18:12:12  
Not sure what you mean, how do you measure pos to pos? Shouldn't you read pos to new?



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Arne ID

02-21-2002 19:26:03




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 Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Paul8n, 02-21-2002 19:07:36  
Hi Paul,

I mean positive lead on the DVM to the positive post on the battery and so on. What prompted me to check was my friend has a 6V charger, a newer modern one. When he hooked it up, a light that indicates the leads are reversed lit up. The starter spins the right direction, something must be right. ;-)

Wait a minute.... Why then does it work to jump it with a twelve volt with pos to ground and neg to starter pole? I am confused.

Arne

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sparkey

02-21-2002 20:43:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Arne ID, 02-21-2002 19:26:03  
Reverse the polarity once with a 12 volt jumper battery and you'll get your answer.



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Rsquared

02-21-2002 21:05:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to sparkey, 02-21-2002 20:43:26  
When I got my NAA home much to my suprise I found it wired Neg. Ground same BatChager clue.. Turns out IF you repolarize your Voltage Regulator and switch the Amp meter leads you can run Neg ground! Starter field coil and bushes (series) set the direction of rotation not sensitive to + or - Perm Magnet DC motors will change direction. Diodes in Alternator do not allow this trick!



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Dell (WA)

02-21-2002 21:13:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Rsquared, 02-21-2002 21:05:50  
RR..... ...watch out on yer NAA grounding, If'n you don't reverse your sparkie coil polarity, you can loose up to 25% of your sparkies..... ...Dell



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Rsquared

02-21-2002 21:40:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guru's, answer me this. ;-) in reply to Dell (WA), 02-21-2002 21:13:24  
Yup! I left that out. My sparkie died soon after I got it home.. When I restore I will change out the old Jeep CJ2 coil and condenser that now keep the her running..(:>)



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