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What on earth did I do?

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Premie-farmer

04-07-2002 16:40:49




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I don't think my earlier post was posted. I tried out the 8N that I purchased yesterday it was running great so I decided to try the mower that came with it. About an hour into the job I hit a ground hog mound and before I could engage the clutch the tractor bogged down and stopped. It would not restart, in fact it's been sittin in the field all day and still refuses to start.

So I decided to troubleshoot, have gas (the gas valve was opened, closed now, pulled plug to check for fire dang if I can see any, checked points, and can't see spark there eiter. This is a side mount distributor 6V, the previous owner put a new carb, coil, and regulator prior to my purchase. It was running fine when he delivered it yesterday. Come to think of it it was hard to start this morning. So how bad did I break the o girl? Is this easily fixable?

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burt

04-07-2002 19:15:07




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 Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 16:40:49  
Some mowers have a kill switch !!!! Is it a side mount mower or a 3pt??? Smell likely was the belt sliping.



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premie-farmer

04-08-2002 04:06:53




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to burt, 04-07-2002 19:15:07  
3pt mower, previous owner didn't mention a "kill" switch.



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Dell (WA)

04-07-2002 16:51:28




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 Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 16:40:49  
Premie..... .....this is going to be a hard one. You've done all the eazy checks.

Based upon your "lack of spark" report, you could have anything from bad electrical connections to a bad 6 volt positive ground battery. You can actually run several days on a 6 volt battery without your tractor generator charging it.

There is a real good chance your ignition points have slipped, especially if they were recently replaced. The special 8-32X3/16 holddown screw actually wears out and the thread doesn't hold.

Remember the 6 volt mantra: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight". ..... ..Dell

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Justin 8N NC

04-07-2002 19:42:16




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-07-2002 16:51:28  
I think that a similar thing happened to me today. After a few months in hibernation I pulled my 8N out and worked for a few hours. I stopped at one point and had some lunch, but when I went to start up again it just cranked and cranked, but wouldn't fire.

Upon checking the points, they had slipped to the point that they were not opening, plus the wire that runs between the coil and bottom of the distributor wasn't "clean, brite, and tight". After making those adjustments, it started right up and I worked for a few more hours.

Then it suddenly quit on me. When I hit the starter there was nothing. Apparently my generator hadn't been charging and that nice new battery I got last fall finally got used up.

Charging it tonight and tomorrow will see what else I can find. Gotta love these 50 year old tractors. :)

Justin

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Premie-farmer

04-07-2002 17:47:11




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-07-2002 16:51:28  
Now that I sit and think about it more. Right after the tractor quit running I smelled an acrid smell like something was burning under it. I looked at the muffler but there was nothing caught in it. Could this have been the coil or condenser shorting out? If so is there a way to check either? I sure will be glad when my book comes in.



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Dell (WA)

04-07-2002 20:13:51




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 Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 17:47:11  
Premie..... .....since your ignition capacitor is covered up and down inside your distributor, you really would have to have a very good nose to smell it. I doubt you have a shorted capacitor or shorted ignition coil. And unfortunately, there are NOW SIMPLE shadetree mechanic tests for bad ignition coils or capacitors except by replacement by known good units.

Since you have your generator and voltage regulator and all your associated electrical wiring harness right out in the open, I would start sniffing there.

And if you're having "battery charging problems" start inspecting wiring harness and voltage regulator up behind your dash panel as opposed to far upfront where the generator is. ..... ...Dell

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premie-farmer

04-08-2002 06:01:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-07-2002 20:13:51  
Thanks for the info Dell I sort of figured that (shorting condensor and coil) was a long shot. This is probably going to turn out to be something simple like a lose or bad wire as this system is a fairly basic ignition system. Guess when it quits raining I'll get out in the field with a multi meter and start checking continutity of my wires.



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Premie-farmer

04-07-2002 17:32:43




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-07-2002 16:51:28  
The points do look nice and clean I take it they are recenlty replaced as the rotor and cap look new as well. I've scratched my head all day long and give the weather forcast for Central KY for rain the next 3 days I guess I have plenty of time to research this one. I even put the battery on the charger this afternoon for several hours. It pulled 5 amps initially and took about 2 1/2 hours to charge up. I must admit I love the tractor already and hate it being broke just on the first day but being 50 years old I guess it's entitled to a little break down. Other than the primary wire from the coil to dist the wiring looks orginal from the fabric it is in and the crack along the light wires which are not connected.

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Premie-farmer

04-08-2002 16:14:31




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 Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 17:32:43  
Update: On arriving home since the weather man apparently didn't pay attention to the cows and chickens I decided to look into the tractor. Low a behold I found something interesting. You know that burning smell I mentioned. Well it turns out that one of the wires in the wiring harness in its hook(above the generator) had arched against the sheet metal hood. I unwraped the bundle and loosened the wires and traced it to quess where? The coil wire from the top of coil back to the terminal/resistor block. Also found several in this bundle (from orginal wires) that had broken cloth insulation.

So how bad does it sound that this wire shorted out while running. It's not totally burnt through just good a blackened. I'm wondering if it shorted out the entire ignition system since I was filling spunky and checked for spark while holding the plug agaisnt the block = no spark :( no shock :)

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reggie nelson

05-21-2003 19:14:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-08-2002 16:14:31  
Peasle Help Me... I broke my spark plug off and now I cant get it out , Whatb should I do to fix this.



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Premie-farmer

04-07-2002 16:45:58




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 Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 16:40:49  
Another note. I've searched all over and can't find a S/N. I see on the left side on engine behinde starter under battery in a verticle position 8NB and a horizontal tag above this with R16 1 on it. Can't find anything else on the engine any advice on where else to look.



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Justin 8N NC

04-07-2002 19:24:27




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 16:45:58  
Your looking in the right general area. Now just look slightly above and in front of the starter on a flat area of the engine block. Like Dell mentioned, the serial number will be stamped into the block rather than raised numbers like the others you found. It should start with 8N..... and may have little diamonds before and after it.

Justin



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Dell (WA)

04-07-2002 16:53:50




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 Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Premie-farmer, 04-07-2002 16:45:58  
Premie..... ....the N-Tractor serial number is hand stamped on a flat spot just under the cylinderhead and behind the oil filter above the starter..... ..... .Dell



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Premie-farmer

04-08-2002 17:16:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell, this should help him with the S#., 04-08-2002 05:07:49  
Thanks Larry. After a little naval jelly and a scrubbin I'm th enew owner of 8N356883 with an engine cast date of R161.



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premie-farmer

04-08-2002 05:54:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to Dell, this should help him with the S#., 04-08-2002 05:07:49  
Thanks for the pics. This will help alot. I did pull the air cleaner hose and some gas did drip out amout a tablespoon. If it's flooded how long does it usually take to "unflood".



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Larry 8N75381

04-08-2002 09:20:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to premie-farmer, 04-08-2002 05:54:38  
You are welcome! I like to put together things that are helpful to others.

As to your gas in the carb, I had a LOT more in mine! :-) Yours should have dried out in an hour or so.

I would recommend your keeping the valve shut off, regardless of how new the float valve is. It can still get a bit of crud in it that lets gas leak by. Then it will fill the carb and flow into the carb air passage - some people have even found that it has filled up the engine cylinders - given enough gas and time and the air joints are good and tight - as they should be. I have made a habit of going to the left side each time I am going to use the 8N, I put in the key and open the valve (both are on the same side so it helps) THEN I get on the tractor and start it. When I stop I get off to the left shut the valve off and remove the key. I have neighbor children that I let "play" in my barn lot - their house backs up on my farm, I'm right in a little village - so I pull the key to remove any temptation, not to keep it from being stolen since it can so easily be jumped.

Regards,
Larry

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tim in nc

04-08-2002 08:01:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What on earth did I do? in reply to premie-farmer, 04-08-2002 05:54:38  
when mine does that I can pull the throttle wide open and leave it maybe 2 or 3 hours and it will crank up.I leave it wide open while cranking until it fires up and throttle down.The skeeters wont swarm around you the rest of the day hth



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