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Engine Rebuild Question

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9N'er

04-10-2002 05:14:53




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I am learning a lot about myself as I get older. One thing I am learning is that I need some time to think about some projects before I jump in.

And so it goes with the 9N engine rebuild.

I visited my old tractor fix it guy in Maine yesterday to discuss rebuilding my 9N engine.

The price to do it is scary...minimum 2,000.00-2,500.00 possibly more depending if it goes easy, or if more needs to be done beyond the usual unknowns that creep into the process.

I have basic mechanical ability. I do not have an array of mechanics tools. I have the tools to take apart the basics, but to get in and disassemble an engine, rebuild it, and more importantly the knowledge (been reading some of the N-Newsletter articles on rebuilding engines) there is no way I can anticipate what to do and how to do it.

Given all of that, can it be done? Can a guy like me rebuild a 9N engine over next winter?

I just can't see putting in 2k-2.5k in the tractor because there is no way I'll recover that cost if I need to sell it. Not on top of what I have put into it already.

Should I just do it? and figure it out as I go? and is the risk worth the knowledge gained? and money saved? 9N'er

p.s. I do want the tractor to be in excellent mechanical condition. That's my preference...to do it right and to be thorough when all is said and done.

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norbert kanzler

04-10-2002 20:40:45




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Check with your local Ford tractor dealer. I pulled the engine on a 9N took it to my local Ford tractor dealer and for $450 got a complete engine rebuild. Works perfect



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PJ Niner

04-10-2002 19:55:12




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Dear niner,
Do it yourself. Shop around, read a lot and go for it. Don't forget that when these came out in 1939 the average owner probably did't have anywhere close to the tools we consider necessary today. I have not done a complete rebuild myself but all the reading I have done indicates what everyone has told you... you can do it for a lot less than $2000. It won't be fun until it is over and running but then that new purr will make it all worthwhile. Good Luck..... .. PJ Niner

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dave#1

04-10-2002 18:47:18




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Like the others said, rebuild the dang thing yourself, remember, this ain't no BMW M-3 motor, it's a 23 horse, low Rpm 4 cylinder B&S lawn mower engine ! Even you I'm sure can rebuild one of these.

later,dave



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Bill W.

04-10-2002 18:44:57




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Tom: I was in the same position you are about a year ago on the Pitiful 8n. I completed the engine rebuild for less than $1,000 and that was complete with kit, shop labor, and repairing crack in head. This also included oil pump rebuild which is part of the kit. I did all the disassembly and reassembly after machine shop got through with it. It was one of the most interesting, satisfying and challenging things I have ever done. I loved every minute of it. One of the engine rebuild videos for 24.95 was a big help as was the advice of many members of this board particularly my dear friend Zane.As a matter of fact if you want the rebuild video, let me know. It's yours. After it was all done with, I look back and can honestly say "it was a piece of cake" and I never had done anything like it before. If your block, head and crank are ok,you've got it made. The cranks can be turned as much as .060 under. Go for it. I have a feeling you will get the same personal rewards from it as I did. E mail me if you have any questions.

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MikeC

04-10-2002 14:08:16




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you can get a complete rebuilt engine (less the oil pan, head and accessories) for about $1500+freight from Value Built. They also advertise a "new" engine for $1800. When I rebuilt mine I spent about $1200 doing everything possible, including replacing the head (way overkill, but at least it will last another 50 years). $2000-2500 could get you a complete tractor.

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Bama8N

04-10-2002 11:55:46




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Do it yourself. If I can do it, you can do it. You did a great job of refurbishing the 9N and you'll do just as good on the engine. Farm out the machine work and learn as you go. The best part of all is when it's done you can say you did it yourself.



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rob 8N11071 KS

04-10-2002 10:19:41




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Have you considered a rebuilt short block instead? I replace my engine (and I am NOT mechanically inclined) last year for about $1100 total.



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Greg (NV)

04-10-2002 08:46:39




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Your post makes me feel a little better in the fact that I paid a guy $1200 plus parts to rebuild my 52 8N engine and I thought that was way too high. I figure I've got about $1700 - $1800 in the engine alone. I would've done it myself but I don't have all the equipment to do machine work etc. They're a pretty simple design from what I can see and read, so I will do the next one myself. Don't tell my wife, but there will be a next one, and a next one, and a....

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Bri9n(Ont)

04-10-2002 08:38:25




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
9n'er.....not sure if you have the J&D rebuilt video for the n'series, but even with my limited mechanical ability, watching that a few times gave me a good handle on the steps involved and at some point I'm going to go at my 9n. I also know a few retired tractor repair fellows that would enjoy coming by at key points to pass along their experience, for a cup of coffee and some conversation. That'll be my approach...Brian.

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2fordsmike

04-10-2002 08:35:38




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
As point of reference, I spent around $2,800 to have my Jubilee overhauled, but that included many, many things besides a thorough (even balanced the rods) engine overhaul. Extras included rebuild of hydraulics, new bushing and pin on front axle, new bushings in the spindles, new clutch, guages etc. Really they started with the radiator and ended with new gasket in pto! This is in a shop that specializes in Fords here in Iowa. Another point of reference: Valu-built (former Farm and Country) offers rebuilt 9N engine for $1449 with exchange. They're has to be a machine shop within 50 miles of your place that can do all of the hard stuff. You could take out the engine and haul it to em. While it's apart is a perfect time to do a lot of other stuff such as radiator and clutch. Zane's offer is super, too. Mike-Io

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DavidO

04-10-2002 08:28:49




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
I agree with the others, particularly with Zane and Danny's posts below. The total cost should be around $750. to $1000. depending on how much machine shop work costs. If you seek out and find a good local machine shop, they will have a lot of good advice and will help you get everything done right. Let them do the block and head work. You do the disassembly and reassembly. If you do it yourself, you get to have "braggin rights", if someone else does it "ho hum". Really, do it yourself. It will not be real easy, if it is your first rebuild, but after you are done, you will be glad you did it.

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Evil Steve

04-10-2002 07:57:58




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Nothin' like the feeling of doing it yourself. You'll feel better about what you have when it's finished and you'll have some great war stories to share.

All you need is a good work place, an extra set of hands for some of the heavy work, some basic tools, time, and cerveza (that's beer for all you Yanks);-)



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RedBug

04-10-2002 07:46:36




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Go for it!! How much can you screw up? I'm doing a total restoration on a 1950 Farmall Super AV. It belonged to my grandfather, so I'll never sell it. I ordered one of those engine rebuild videos listed on this site. The quality is poor, but the information is great. I've never done any kind of mechanical work before, but don't see a very big problem rebuilding the engine. I'll farm out the hard stuff or otherwise don't have the tools for, but if I screw it up then I can take it to the shop. By the way, I'm completely taking apart this tractor and rebuilding her, from the ground up. I have most of it disassembled and just stripped the head. I broke off a valve guide, so I'll just have them all replaced when I take it in to be dipped, fluxed, and milled. No big deal!! And the feeling you get from doing this by yourself will be great. Gook luck, and get going!!!

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Arne

04-10-2002 07:26:04




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
For that amount of money you can order a rebuilt engine from New Holland. The guy at the dealer told me about it just the other day. If you have the time and ability, go for it yourself.

Arne



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Danny in CO

04-10-2002 06:42:29




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
9N'er,

You can do it yourself without out a lot of special tools. You will have to have a machine shop do some of the work: removing old sleeves and installing the new sleeves, mic'ing the crank (and turning if needed), resizing the rods, resurfacing the flywheel (if needed), etc. The only special tool you will need is a ring squeezer to compress the new ring when inserting them into the cylinders. You will need a floor jack, and some sort of hoist. Other than that, standard tools. An engine stand is also good to use but not necessary.

The steps are:

- Remove hood and gas tank, and raditor.
- Jack up front end and block up under transmission.
- Remove front axle and roll aside.
- Drain oil.
- Remove generator, distributor and wires from block.
- Disconnect oil line to oil gauge and linkage to governor.
- I like to remove head, manifold, water pump, governor, oil filter, oil pan, and pistons at this point to lighten the block before spliting. Be sure to keep rod caps with the same pistons and pointing in the same direction.
- Split engine from transmission.
- Remove cluth and flywheel from crank.
- Remove crank from block.
- Remove anything else still on the block.
- Remove valves and cam.
- You can now take the block to a machine shop. There are a number of thing they can do for you if you want: remove old sleeves, boil out the block, mic and turn crank, resize rods, install new sleeves, etc.
- After you get things back from the machine shop and get the new parts, you are ready to start reassembling the engine. Just reverse the process.

I keep a box of zip lock bags in the garage. As I take bolts and other small pieces off, I label a bag and put the parts in the bag so I know where to put them back.

Hope this helps, however I'm sure I forgot something,
Danny

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rasputen

04-10-2002 06:00:45




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
9N'er, Your old tractor fixer upper guy is not your friend. I have been pricing my 8N rebuild at $1000 to $1500 for the total job. The complete rebuild kit w/pistons,sleeves & all valves is about $450 from N complete. He must be either planning on ripping you off or installing a NEW crank and cam along with everything else. I will be doing mine myself and do not plan on replacing those parts. I do want the machineshop to tank, deck,grind valve seats and mic everything. Plan on doing it myself cause thats the way I am. Also everytime I fire it up I want that feeling.

bd

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ZANE

04-10-2002 05:55:45




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
That guy is trying to stick you!!!!!

Crate it up and send it to me and pay the frieght and I will rebuild it for $1000.00.

I would think the freight would not be over $300.00 both ways.

That guy just doesn't need the work and just figures that if he gets it he will make a killing and if he doesn't he won't be lost anything.

And I definetely don't need the work unless I put on a second shift!!! :O)

My two oldest grand boys have about quit coming to visit me now! 13 and 17 years old. They can put a ZANE THANG together with no supervision now!

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SteveB(wi)

04-10-2002 05:46:35




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Try to make some contacts in small machine shops who may be able to do some of the more technically oriented stuff requiring tools you'll never need to own. Whoever works on your car can be another good source for advice/help. Network with everyone you know and let them know what you plan. Lots of guys love to help out or do a G job at work for the price of 12 or 24 beverages. I can't do everything or have every tool but I know a lot of people who can do it or have the tool and they know lots of people too. Prepare to tie up a space in the garage and don't rush. $2-2500 sounds kind of steep to me. I would think you can find a rebuilt for less than that, or try some non-tractor engine builders.

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John,PA

04-10-2002 05:24:24




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 Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to 9N'er, 04-10-2002 05:14:53  
Re-building your engine can be a rewarding and money-saving project, especially if you do-it-yourself. Even though the project looks and maybe even sounds complicated, you should be able to do a good job with it just using your basic tools and mechanical ability. Just take it slow and manage it methodically and you shouldn't have any problem. Remove each part and keep the bolts and related parts together and don't lose any parts. I always use plastic bags to store the parts in and label the bag. Good Luck :)

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lastcamp

04-10-2002 05:40:08




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 Re: Re: Engine Rebuild Question in reply to John,PA, 04-10-2002 05:24:24  
Sounds like a lot of money for a rebuild. I had my 8N rebuilt for less than $1000...I am thinking around $800. Admittedly, that was several years ago, and things have gone up. I split the tractor, put the engine in the truck, and took it to a machine shop where the work was done. A very thorough rebuild, from which I have never had a problem. Just sharing my experience.



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