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Front Pivot Pin Help

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2NTim

04-11-2002 11:41:11




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I have a 1942 2N, and I'm trying to get the Pivot Pin out. I have the whole assembly off the tractor and in the hydraulic press...I'm doing a complete restoration on this one...so no biggie.
Anyway, I've got it up to about 3 tons now...and holding. I'm afraid to give it anymore pressure...am I just chicken, or what? Oh, and Yes, I DID remove the bolt with the tapered tip first...and have soaked it with WD40 for about a week.

Do I need a small nuke device?

Is this "normal"?

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Rob

04-11-2002 16:16:59




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 Re: Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to Larrys8n, 04-11-2002 15:19:44  
The bushing I got from New Holland was steel. It's hardly more than 1/16" thick. I can't see brass holding up very long in there. The steel bushing I removed was very old because it was the original "split" design. It was gone on one end on the bottom tapered from paper thin up around the sides on that end.



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2NTim

04-11-2002 13:37:45




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 Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 11:41:11  
Thanks all for your thoughts/ideas! I ended up using heat and a few dozen "caresses" with a sledge hammer. The casting appears to be in very good shape...no cracks or warping...so, I'm lucky this time.
Now, any suggestions on where to buy a new pin?

Thanks again



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jimp[Co

04-11-2002 13:06:03




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 Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 11:41:11  
Tim, get something to put on it other than WD40 WD40 is not a lubricant, it is a watre disburser even tho a lot of us use it as a lub.
BBPlaster is good.



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Rob

04-11-2002 12:25:39




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 Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 11:41:11  
Just finished reworking that axle support and pin three days ago. I didn't have so much trouble removing the pin but I did have to remove the axle support and beat the pin out. That pin and support was treated badly over the years.
There were cracks in the support that has the bolt. On the backside of that support and 3-4 inches below the pin. The casting was cracked allowing the top of the support to spread and that made the pin look too short. The end of the pin was 1/8" short of flush with the extreme backside of the axle support. It should be flush. The axle support was whallowed out pretty badly on the engine side. If you don't have whallowed out holes but the axle support has spread then that movement may have the pin in a bind.
I had the support rebuilt with new inserts with collars, welds on the casting, and a new pin made to fit. I got some machinery bushings to space the axle on the pin. The guy at an Axle and Spring Shop just gave me a handful of the bushings. He said he had 20 bags of 'em in that side upstairs. It took 11 of 'em to fill in the extra inch on the pin.
I beleive operating without those spacers was the reason for all the movement and wear.

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2NTim

04-11-2002 13:45:09




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 Re: Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to Rob, 04-11-2002 12:25:39  
Thanks for the tip. I beat it out (gently) and am now looking for a new pin.
In regards to your shimming of (if I read yer post correctly) the fore and aft movement of the axle...
I would be very careful there. Though I have little to no experience with old tractors (but learning fast)...I have about 35 yrs as a mechanical design engineer. I believe that the front axle was meant to "float" fore and aft on the pivot pin...and the radius rods "locked" things front to back. If you shim the axle, I think the two elements may "argue" with one another.

Just a thought...

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Mikey

04-11-2002 15:27:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 13:45:09  
2NTim,
You are right about the space in the pin. The space allows the front axle to "float" back and forth when you increase or decrease the wheel spacing on the front.

If you move the front tires out to their max width, The center axle will need to move to the rear of the pin and keep from binding. If you are going to leave the front wheel spacing in one position I guess you could shim it tight, but I sure wouldn't recommend it.

My nickels worth,

Mikey

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Rob

04-11-2002 16:10:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to Mikey, 04-11-2002 15:27:00  
Good thinking. I hadn't thought about what would happen if I changed the wheel spacing. It may be that the spacers would need to be shuffled around.
Now you should consider that the later model N's had the spacers. A 0.750" and whatever number of 0.09" required to provide proper spacing.
What I saw in my '44 N was that the steel bushing slipped out from the axle about halfway. That allowed the axle to twist and wear against the pin. The underside of the pin was worn and only half of the bushing was worn! On top of that the axle sat wearing against the top of the front axle support and wore that while the bottom of the support was not worn resulting in a angled surface and probably caused the cracks in the support. That's why I had to add a collar to the insert on the front support.
Maybe you can figure a different way to keep the 1 1/2" bushing in the 1 1/2" wide axle when there is 2 1/4" of space on the pin but I didn't and I put spacers in there like the 8N's. I'm watching it because I didn't have any guidance on how to place the spacers and I'll keep your concerns in mind. I got to tell you, I like the way the front end is working. No more "clunks" as the axle flops around on turns and uneven ground and the bearing is always between the axle and the pin.
Try the machine shop for a bid on making a pin. The tubing is an 1.75" standard and they aren't expensive to make. The pin New Holland stocks in is for the 8N and is 1/4" short (3/8" for mine!). I would ask them to use the flange from the original pin. The 2N pin is no longer supported by New Holland. I have a servicable pin I picked up at Abilene Machine. It's available if you're interested. It's worn on the bottom too but not as badly as the pin I took out of my N. The use of spacers will cure the wear on the bottom of the pin and a worn pin would work fine.
Don't even wonder about the price for a used axle support.

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ZANE

04-11-2002 12:19:43




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 Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 11:41:11  
If the bushing has been gone for a long time it may be that the pin has grown a ridge around about half of it that will not come through the hole. If this is the case you may have to burn it out at both ends and then remove what is left. The pin would not be worth saving if this is the case anyway.

Zane



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John,PA

04-11-2002 11:53:27




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 Re: Front Pivot Pin Help in reply to 2NTim, 04-11-2002 11:41:11  
Although I have never had a problem with the pivot, I believe that I would put some heat on the casting. Might just be enough to expand it enough, before putting the press to it. Hope this helps.



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