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Deciphering electrical mess.

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68 Mag

05-19-2002 20:05:10




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Ok, I've been crawling over my '48 8N's electrical system lately, because of a bad coil. Now, I have the original starter and generator, and the battery is 'jumpered' from the hot leg to a screw on top of the distributor. there's a battery cable to the starter, and a negative ground.

My question- Since the previous owner converted to 12 volt, wouldnt I need a generator (alternator) capable of putting out 12? I always thought the factory generator would only put out 6 or 7 to charge a 6 volt battery...


Confused (as usual),

68 Mag

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Gary (MO)

05-20-2002 06:19:18




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 Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to 68 Mag, 05-19-2002 20:05:10  
MAG,
I ran across an old guy who "converted" to 12 volt by dropping in a 12 V battery. THE END. Says he charges it on a battery charger a couple of times a year. I suppose it's possible but he must have accidently put the wrong coil on or it would be toast by now. Assume nothing. Get expert to check.

Good luck,
Gary



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Dell (WA)

05-19-2002 21:02:45




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 Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to 68 Mag, 05-19-2002 20:05:10  
68 mag..... .....some claim you can adjust the 2N's 3rd brush generator to output 12 volts, which is enuff to kinda keep a 12 volt battery mildly charged. The neat thing with 12 volt alternators is the built-in voltage regulator that controls the alternator output to about 14.7 volts and optiminal for charging a 12 volt battery.

But you are talking about the early 8N 2-brush generator with square voltage regulator on the backside of the dashpanel. There are some 12 volt converters that want to keep it "original looking" by using a later model 12 generator and regulator from a later tractor. Its hard to tell.

My advice, bring both the generator and voltage regulator into a real oldfashioned generator rebuilt shop for checkout. Check your yellowpages.

As for screwing 12 volt direct to a 6 volt frontmount ignition coil, if your description is correct, its a wonder it runs at all. Realize that the OEM 6 volt ignition coil is really designed to run on about 3.5 volts after it is dropped by the infamous ballast resistor mounted on the backside of your dash-panel. 12 volts on a 6 volt coil will burn it out. toot-sweet

Lord save us all from the unqualified cheapskate shadetree mechanic that thinks he knows what he is doing and leaves a mess for the electrical challenged and confused.

You know that I am a 12 volt advocate for the right reasons, that said, so far I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6 volt 52 8N and I know how to do it right. ..... ..Dell

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68 Mag

05-20-2002 07:00:20




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 Re: Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to Dell (WA), 05-19-2002 21:02:45  
Hmmm. Well, the only two things I can find changed are the battery, and a resistor/ block on the toolbox mount. These are comin off, and I'm going back to 6 volt. Dad can just deal with it...



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don't be impetuous . . . Dell (WA)

05-20-2002 07:14:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to 68 Mag, 05-20-2002 07:00:20  
68 Mag..... .....Ol'Dad'll have yer bunns if'n it don't sound right trying to start with a 6 volt battery after the speedie 12 volt starter rpms. It musta started and run right for at least a while.

Heres what I'd do, starting making pictorial diagrams of what you think your electrical system looks like. Then if'n it don't make sense, start comparing it to published conversion diagrams that you've researched out on the net, their there.

Then if you still don't understand, ask me, I can talk you thru it. But remember, it ran once, what did you do to stopitt?..... .....Dell

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68 Mag

05-20-2002 08:35:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to don't be impetuous . . . Dell (WA), 05-20-2002 07:14:07  
We used it to pull the Suburban about 10 feet forward (had the engine totally disassembled). Then dad drove it another 15 feet, cut it off, and left it. Later that night I went to go get it and bring it around under the shed. It wouldnt start, and hasnt since. It's getting gas, and the starter spins, we just dont have spark on any cylinders. Dad said the coil was bad, so I have to get a new one...I'm just afraid it's gonna burn it out as well, and I'll be putting oil, gas and coils on it all the time.

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well . . . Dell (WA)

05-20-2002 11:46:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to 68 Mag, 05-20-2002 08:35:51  
68 Mag..... ....given your previous description of your frontmount 8N's conversion to 12 volts, I'd say that your dad was correct, its a bad coil.

As I said, I'd be quite happy to help you do it right. I've answered your specific question about 12 volt generator but you have to be receptive to instructions.

As I see it, you have 2 issues. Is that really a 12 volt generator and does it really keep your 12 volt battery charged? The other issue is your ignition coil and what can be done to make it bulletproof?

I need to know how comfortable you are working on simple electrical systems? I need to know if you have any sort of electrical test equipment so I'm not guessing. Do you have any sort of a volt meter? Even a $10 cheepie from mega-hardware store is plenty good enough..... .....your friend and helper, Dell

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68 Mag

05-20-2002 13:34:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to well . . . Dell (WA), 05-20-2002 11:46:05  
Wow...I may be opening myself up to too much here, but thanks. That comment about being a friend really meant a lot.


Now, to the electrical- I feel comfortable working on anything, as long as I have someone telling me what I need to be doing. I'm sure I can come up with some sort of tester, because my dad is a Union electrician.

He would help me, but due to the upcoming IBEW reunion, he's not here, and after that he's talking about having to go to Boston to find work, so he wont be here. So, I need to fix it on my own. The guy I get my parts from said he'd help me as much as he could, but since he's not a mechanic, he said he probably wont be able to help much.

Well, there it is. If you have any detailed questions, shoot me an email later.


Your friend,

68 Mag...ehh, whatha heck...Blake. Figure if everone else here can be honest enough to use their real name, it wouldnt kill me to at least sign a post with mine...

Blake.

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Richard(WY)

05-19-2002 20:26:25




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 Re: Deciphering electrical mess. in reply to 68 Mag, 05-19-2002 20:05:10  
probably there is a step down in there someplace from 12V to 6v. had a 46 pickup with such a device, drove me nuts until I figured out what some one had done to it.



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